OT: SSD's and Defrag

[mr_es335]

Dave,

Those partitions are not used - they are redundant partitions - so if these are unused, they would not require trimming/defragging...correct?

For trimming/defragging to be operative...there needs to be something going on - and as these partitions have nothing going on - at least as far as I am able to ascertain, then no optimization is required.

Does this make sense?

However, when talking with Samsung and ADATA, they expressly told me NOT to any other tools other than the ones that they provide. And as I do not use defragging of any sort - I use other means to maintain my drives, I have not pursed this course of action any further.

[mr_es335]

Stashu,

Partitioning in 2019 is Stone Age thinking for SSDs and dangerous.

... If what you are stating IS true, then why does Windows installation create a number of partitions during a clean install. For example:
Attachment 2927

Because of the way SSDs work, there is no need for Optimization or Defrag.

... I understand about defragging an SSD - but Intel, Samsung and ADATA all seem to state the opposite. Defrag - NO!, Trim - Yes! As far as I am able to ascertain, optimizing in Windows 10 refers to Trim for SSD's and defrag for HDD's.

I haven't partitioned a drive since Windows 98. The only partitions that exist are for Recovery Disk and that's set up by the computer manufacturer.

... I am happy for you, but I disagree with you on this point. I have been partitioning drives since Atari/Amiga days. I do agree though that if possible - the use of multiple drives is best.

Professionally and at home, I have the C drive for programs, and a second internal drive for recording sessions and storage for Documents.

... What of systems - such as laptops, where you are limited to the use of a single drive?

Lastly, consider the following:

AOMEI: [click_me]
EaseUS: [click_me]

For what I am able to ascertain - it is all about "partition alignment".

I have a query waiting from Intel, Samsung and ADATA ... I will post the results here. I did ask Samsung when I purchased an 850 EVO - but I cannot find that reply. In that reply however, their response to me regarding partitioning an SSD was that it was alright to do so - just ensure that the partitions were aligned.

[John Ludlow]

Hardware is not my area of expertise, but I don't believe there is any value to running defrag on an SSD. Arranging for the memory locations that make up a file to be in physical proximity to each other will not speed up access to them - and might even slow it down.

In at least one way an SSD is like a RAID 0 array. Distributing consecutively accessed data blocks across multiple Flash RAM chips in the SSD allows the next block in the file to be accessed without having to wait for a chip to refresh. I'm pretty sure this is the reason that larger SSDs of the same model tend to be faster than smaller ones - more parallelism.

An SSD is just Flash RAM with a small organizing processor and some ROM to tell it what to do. So, unlike a Winchester drive, it points at memory addresses - and every address is equal from its point of view (unless it is refreshing...). Whereas, on a disk, the read head has to physically move to the cylinder (concentric circle) that the next piece of data is on - and then wait for the data to spin around to it. So, it's handy if the next block is physically right after the previous one on the same cylinder - and if not on the same cylinder, then on the next or previous one, concentrically. Otherwise, the read head has to physically re-position to a new cylinder and then wait for it to spin around for every data block (which takes time that isn't being used for data access resulting in slower overall disk performance).

My understanding, at least, is that a TRIM-capable OS and SSD drive will accomplish TRIM on the no-longer-needed block(s) as soon as it is 'deleted'. If that's true then there should be no need for the drive to save up blocks to be mass-TRIMmed during a batch operation (like defrag). So - I don't see that there's any reason to ever run defrag on an SSD - and, at worst, it may slow down the drive and cause it to wear out sooner (due to thwarting the previously explained wear-leveling).

It also seems to me that, although there can be organizational value to creating multiple partitions on an SSD, it probably does thwart wear-leveling to at least some extent. The memory locations on your busy partition will wear out before those on your long-term storage partition do. That's just a guess on my part but it seems reasonable.

[Dave Labrecque]

Those partitions are not used - they are redundant partitions - so if these are unused, they would not require trimming/defragging...correct?

Not used? So why do they exist?

[mr_es335]

Dave,

Not used? So why do they exist?

... Have a peep: [click_me]

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave,
... Have a peep: [click_me]

Thanks, but I don't see anything saying or describing how they're not used.

[mr_es335]

Dave,

Thanks, but I don't see anything saying or describing how they're not used.

... Then you will need to look into this further yourself. All that I can say is that some partitions are hidden - and it would seem, not meant to be seen by the end-user. If these drives are being used, then apparently, Microsoft, wants you to leave them alone. You would need to contact them directly on this one to ascertain the reasons why. CGRAFX might be the best one here to ask for this kind of question as well.

For me and my house, I do not use the hidden partitions, so my drive looks like this:

Attachment 2929

I have been using this partition scheme for over 20 years. Some say that I am crazy for doing so - even more so for SSD's. But I have been using SSD's now for over two years and have had no issues whatsoever. Also, I perform regular backups and disk imaging - so if anything does happen, I do consider myself prepared.

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave,
... Then you will need to look into this further yourself. All that I can say is that some partitions are hidden - and it would seem, not meant to be seen by the end-user. If these drives are being used, then apparently, Microsoft, wants you to leave them alone. You would need to contact them directly on this one to ascertain the reasons why. CGRAFX might be the best one here to ask for this kind of question as well.

For me and my house, I do not use the hidden partitions, so my drive looks like this:

Attachment 2929

I have been using this partition scheme for over 20 years. Some say that I am crazy for doing so - even more so for SSD's. But I have been using SSD's now for over two years and have had no issues whatsoever. Also, I perform regular backups and disk imaging - so if anything does happen, I do consider myself prepared.

Ah, so if I understand you correctly, you don't know that they're not being used (perhaps in some kind of background process)? They're created by default upon installing the OS (as I'm sure you know), so my thinking is that they're being used for something. Maybe they're just sitting there, inactive, waiting for possible future use, rather than any kind of on-going activity?

[mr_es335]

Dave,

System partition - Required
The device must contain a system partition. On GPT drives, this is known as the EFI System Partition, or the ESP. This partition is usually stored on the primary hard drive. The device boots to this partition. The minimum size of this partition is 100 MB, and must be formatted using the FAT32 file format. This partition is managed by the operating system, and should not contain any other files, including Windows RE tools.

Microsoft reserved partition (MSR)
Beginning in Windows 10, the size of the MSR is 16 MB. Add an MSR to each GPT drive to help with partition management. The MSR is a reserved partition that does not receive a partition ID. It cannot store user data.

Windows partition - Required
The partition must have at least 20 gigabytes (GB) of drive space for 64-bit versions, or 16 GB for 32-bit versions. The Windows partition must be formatted using the NTFS file format. The Windows partition must have 16 GB of free space after the user has completed the Out Of Box Experience (OOBE) and Automatic Maintenance has completed.

Recovery tools partition - Optional
This partition must be at least 300 MB.