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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Default OT: Windows 10 Updating

    Hello,

    This just might be an interesting "bit 'o news" for some, but over the past few months I have been noticing and experiencing the following:

    1a. Some vendors are no longer providing support downloads for their products
    * For example, Logitech and HP - to name just two.
    1b. Such updates - according to both Logitech and HP and being "handled" entirely by the various "Window's Update" services.
    * In a recent conversation with HP, I mentioned to them that I am experiencing more frequent "504 Gateway Time-out" errors - which according to HP, as I am told, is the result of too much activity on that particular server.

    2a. For those WIN10 users - especially Home Edition, if you are connected to the Internet and you have some form of external hardware connected, such as printers, Web-cams, scanners, and so on, then these devices are regularly being scanned for updates. With some vendors, I am told, you can determine how and when some updates are handled, but I have not yet spent much time with WIN10 Home Edition to ascertain just what and when such updates occur and how they are handled.
    2b. With WIN10 Pro - I have been able to completely disabled updating - though to some, this procedure is considered "verboten"!
    2c. A question might be asked, "What happens when an installation fails or is interrupted?" I sincerely hope that there is a contingency plan in place for this?

    3. So, what happens when an update is "in progress" - and then is interrupted due to too much server activity.
    * I experienced this issue when installing and updating an older Logitech Web-cam which I mistakenly left connected during a Windows 10 installation.
    * In my "time tests" - and just for my own curiosity my man, with an SSD, WIN10 installs in just under fifteen minutes. With the Web-cam connected - over forty minutes! Once the install was completed, I disconnected the cam, and performed another installation - just over twelve minutes. Interesting!
    * By-the-way, I am using a script that does not check for driver updates during the installation process - as I prefer to install these myself. In a normal WIN10 installation, the driver updates are handled entirely during the installation process. This is reason why thee are varied installation times.

    4. I doubt - and sincerely hope, that vendors such as RME and others will not adopt such "auto-update functionalities" - even though I do believe that this situation does occur with MAC's. At least, this is what I gleaned from Rick Beato!

    5. This would make the use of WIN LTSC a much more viable option for some users. And at $11.00US - this really should be a no-brainer!

    I hope that some will find this information of some practicable use?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    SF Bay Area
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    1,187

    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_es335 View Post
    Hello,

    3. So, what happens when an update is "in progress" - and then is interrupted due to too much server activity.
    * I experienced this issue when installing and updating an older Logitech Web-cam which I mistakenly left connected during a Windows 10 installation.
    * In my "time tests" - and just for my own curiosity my man, with an SSD, WIN10 installs in just under fifteen minutes. With the Web-cam connected - over forty minutes! Once the install was completed, I disconnected the cam, and performed another installation - just over twelve minutes. Interesting!
    * By-the-way, I am using a script that does not check for driver updates during the installation process - as I prefer to install these myself. In a normal WIN10 installation, the driver updates are handled entirely during the installation process. This is reason why thee are varied installation times.
    If your installing windows from a USB drive and you plug a slower USB device into a port connected to the same USB channel it will slow the entire channel down to the speed of the slowest device.

    What you were experiencing was very likely that effect.

    Your Install drive was a USB2 or USB3 device and the web cam was likely a USB1 device. Plugging in the CAM slowed the USB ports down to the USB1 speeds, making the install process really slow.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Maple Ridge, BC Canada
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    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    Philip,

    I agree about the USB speeds, Philip...but my main concern here is the path which the entire update process seems to be going.

    Being "old schooled", I prefer to install drivers and apps myself...but, if what I am experiencing is to be the "norm", then to me, this is not good!

    Granted, for Pro users, this will more than likely not be an issue, but for most users - it could be! This is my main concern here.

    I do hope that this all makes sense?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
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    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    Yes, everything is moving to the phone home model of licensing and updates. In its worst configuration your software won't run unless it connects to a remote license server, or the software is literally cloud based and not even hosted on your local machine.

    Windows updates are currently the most insidious of the big three (MacOS, Windows, Linux), as the Home and Pro versions will do forced updates even if you local host block the servers (they have hard coded IP addresses into the OS)

    The ongoing trend is you don't actually own your computer/phone/device its just a conduit to a monthly rental stream.

    My point about the USB issue was just related to the big difference in install times.

    As for failed updates, aside from the additional bandwidth being used, a stalled or failed update should't do anything to your system. The entire verified update package should download before it actually writes over running/functional releases.

    Of coarse that doesn't mean everybody honors that methodology.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Stuck in FL for now...
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    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    The whole OS/Driver/licensing push pull is old and right now I am in Win 7 - 64 and it is my DAW working with all my gear all working great and it can be that way for ever or until there are no longer PC parts to build computers that run Win7-64. I know I will one day be stuck with plugins, VST and even DAW upgrades but that's ok because all the software does everything I need already.

    My 2010 Mac Pro is my personal computer which is not my main DAW. I have chosen to separate my DAW from personal computing which allows me to coast with what I have as my music making machine.

    No long is the OS/Drive/Licensing pushing or pulling me ;-)
    Last edited by Microstudio; 07-17-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    Quote Originally Posted by cgrafx View Post
    If your installing windows from a USB drive and you plug a slower USB device into a port connected to the same USB channel it will slow the entire channel down to the speed of the slowest device.

    What you were experiencing was very likely that effect.

    Your Install drive was a USB2 or USB3 device and the web cam was likely a USB1 device. Plugging in the CAM slowed the USB ports down to the USB1 speeds, making the install process really slow.
    OK, probably a dumb question, but inquiring minds (at least one) want to know. If I'm using a USB audio interface at the same time as a USB mouse or KSM switch, and a Frontier Tranzport, am I limiting the throughput from the audio interface?

    Thanks,
    Ian Alexander
    VO Talent/Audio Producer
    www.IanAlexander.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    Ian,

    An interesting article...[Click_me]

    Let us se what Philip has to say...Bob too, for that matter...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
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    Default Re: OT: Windows 10 Updating

    It will depend on the configuration of the USB ports. Some ports share the same USB controller and some are independent.

    If the audio interface and a slower USB device share the same controller then yes it will slow down the audio interface.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

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