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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,150

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Is there a reason you wouldn't just want to add the control surface the x16 air?

    You already own it, you know how it works, it just needs the faders and buttons which you can add pretty much by plugging in an ethernet cable.

    Either of these I believe give you 8-channels of motorized faders, mutes, gain, phantom power access.

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ontrol-surface
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...touch-extender
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by cgrafx View Post
    Is there a reason you wouldn't just want to add the control surface the x16 air?
    Yea. I use the X18 (I had given the wrong model) for a variety of things. It is really flexible, sounds good and is inexpensive, but my room does not get used full time and I like having something dedicated - and more important, reliable. Now I can walk in, flip a switch and be recording a track in two minutes - and not have to be in a debug session only to find out I had left the Behringer in some weird state.

    The first time I used it (and I have an XR18 at work, so knew what I was doing), I had the X18 go haywire at the end of sound-checking several different players - someone rolled a piano on wheels across the ethernet cable to the controlling laptop and it was bricked - the factory reset button wouldn't work - and had to send it back to Behringer (and they did fix it).

    This was at an annual event that traditionally had terrible sound. I'm not really a sound man, but volunteered to do it. I was feeling great about my mix most of which was saved in snapshots. I went from that to nothing in one second - right at the start time. We were able to locate and swap in a little mixer - but I had taken advantage of being able to have the mixer right on the edge of the stage using short mic cables - so I was stuck in a terrible spot to mix from and had to rely on hand signals from someone who could hear what was going on. I also got briefly chewed out in that moment of stress by famed drummer Adam Nussbaum with a 'who is the asshole who brought the digital mixer'! I got that same line again from Adam a couple of years later after spending an hour or two setting everything up and a minute or so after flipping the power switch - then his ensemble got treated to a pretty nice mix (no mic needed on what I totally admit was fantastic drumming) - so the X18 actually does work.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh View Post
    This is along the lines of what I'm thinking...
    You may want to check in with forum regular Richard Rupert. He's recently put a Presonus USB mixer into his flow.

    http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/...Richard-Rupert

    Here's the thread: http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/...ive-Series-III
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    2,810

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh View Post
    I also got briefly chewed out in that moment of stress by famed drummer Adam Nussbaum with a 'who is the asshole who brought the digital mixer'! I got that same line again from Adam a couple of years later after spending an hour or two setting everything up and a minute or so after flipping the power switch - then his ensemble got treated to a pretty nice mix (no mic needed on what I totally admit was fantastic drumming) - so the X18 actually does work.
    Thank you for sharing such a humbling story. I'm a huge fan of Nussbaum's drumming (saw him live once here in Toronto) so I can just imagine what it felt like to hear him say that. I'm glad you got a second chance to show him what you're capable of!


  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,150

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh View Post
    Yea. I use the X18 (I had given the wrong model) for a variety of things. It is really flexible, sounds good and is inexpensive, but my room does not get used full time and I like having something dedicated - and more important, reliable. Now I can walk in, flip a switch and be recording a track in two minutes - and not have to be in a debug session only to find out I had left the Behringer in some weird state.

    The first time I used it (and I have an XR18 at work, so knew what I was doing), I had the X18 go haywire at the end of sound-checking several different players - someone rolled a piano on wheels across the ethernet cable to the controlling laptop and it was bricked - the factory reset button wouldn't work - and had to send it back to Behringer (and they did fix it).

    This was at an annual event that traditionally had terrible sound. I'm not really a sound man, but volunteered to do it. I was feeling great about my mix most of which was saved in snapshots. I went from that to nothing in one second - right at the start time. We were able to locate and swap in a little mixer - but I had taken advantage of being able to have the mixer right on the edge of the stage using short mic cables - so I was stuck in a terrible spot to mix from and had to rely on hand signals from someone who could hear what was going on. I also got briefly chewed out in that moment of stress by famed drummer Adam Nussbaum with a 'who is the asshole who brought the digital mixer'! I got that same line again from Adam a couple of years later after spending an hour or two setting everything up and a minute or so after flipping the power switch - then his ensemble got treated to a pretty nice mix (no mic needed on what I totally admit was fantastic drumming) - so the X18 actually does work.
    I hate hearing stories like this as this sort of response even from capable musicians is still wrong and uneducated. The fact that the system was digital vs analog had nothing to do with it.

    Speakers blow, amplifiers fry, mixing consoles die, anything electronic is subject to failure at some point (it doesn't matter if its digital or analog).

    Actually the digital systems are more reliable then their analog counterparts, just by virtue of there being few components (Racks of outboard gear and cabling is gone, huge power supplies for large analog desks are gone, the weight has been drastically reduced improving the movability and reducing the shock sustained in transportation.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by cgrafx View Post
    Actually the digital systems are more reliable then their analog counterparts, just by virtue of there being few components (Racks of outboard gear and cabling is gone, huge power supplies for large analog desks are gone, the weight has been drastically reduced improving the movability and reducing the shock sustained in transportation.
    Now if they would just make a CAT5 cable you can roll a piano over.
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,150

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Labrecque View Post
    Now if they would just make a CAT5 cable you can roll a piano over.
    The do make hardened CAT5, but generally this is handled by redundant cables.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by cgrafx View Post
    I hate hearing stories like this as this sort of response even from capable musicians is still wrong and uneducated.
    I got the feeling a lot of soundmen get this treatment. Ones who know much more than me...
    The fact that the system was digital vs analog had nothing to do with it.
    Point taken - things just happen sometimes. And between setting up and breaking down and having mics getting spit on and cables being stomped on, it only adds to the likelihood of problems. My theory with the piano wheel was there may have been something under the cable like a nail head that pushed through the jacket.

    BTW, I also spotted a Behringer mixer the UFX1604 that matches my description (it has similar feature set to the Presonus Dave posted). Its on their site, but many of the online dealers have posted it as discontinued (which makes me wonder if there is an impending replacement).

  9. #19

    Default Re: Analog mixer suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh View Post
    My theory with the piano wheel was there may have been something under the cable like a nail head that pushed through the jacket.
    Having seen what a baby grand can do when rolled across so-called hardwood floors, I could see the cable and individual wire insulations getting squashed and split by simple compression so that different conductors in any one (or more) of the many twisted pairs make contact.
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

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