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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Maple Ridge, BC Canada
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    2,568

    Default Using a compressor on the ouput

    Good day,

    I had posted this earlier, but apparently the forum "went down" shortly after the posting. So, I will see what I can do to recount that posting.

    I use a Bose L1 System 2 with a B1 bass module. See here...[Click_me]

    Previously I had a pair of Yorkville PS10p active speakers and I was very pleased with what I heard.

    However due to weight and equipment constraints, I opted for the Bose system - for portability purposes.

    However, I am not at all pleased with the output of this system - and the only word that comes to mind is "boxiness". I heard a saying once, "If it ain't got no highs and it ain't got no lows - it just gotta be Bose!"

    A respected collogue of mine who had assisted me in getting the system setup, had suggested the use of a compressor on the outside side to help compensate [??] for this boxiness.

    So, some questions:
    Q1: Would the existing SAC compressor suffice for my needs?
    Q2: What of the use of this one?...[Click_me]
    Q3: Is what I am asking or referring to even possible or feasible?

    Philip was kind enough to provide me with some excellent information - as always, thanks Philip...but I have heard that "Plans succeed through wise council".
    Last edited by mr_es335; 02-13-2020 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    I would try eq on the ouput. I prefer multiple bands, but you could probably carve out the problem
    with Bobs paragraphic no problem. I think I have stacked multiple of his in the past with different
    frequencies to simulate multibands. I recall he may have told me that. There are freeware 31 band vsts
    online also. I will let someone else speak about compression. I recall seeing your gigging setup
    and like how you got that doing a single act. What kind of a pc do you use and are you still running
    the 32bit sac also?

    thanks

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maple Ridge, BC Canada
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    2,568

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Ralph,

    Please see my reply here...[Click_me]

  4. #4

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    thanks Dell, I shall check that out.
    Ralph

  5. #5

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_es335 View Post
    <SNIP>However, I am not at all pleased with the output of this system - and the only word that comes to mind is "boxiness". I heard a saying once, "If it ain't got no highs and it ain't got no lows - it just gotta be Bose!"
    A respected collogue of mine who had assisted me in getting the system setup, had suggested the use of a compressor on the outside side to help compensate [??] for this boxiness.
    It seems to me that e.q. is what you would need to ameliorate your "boxiness" issue, not compression. I would also be afraid that with the Bose speaker placed behind you, you would encourage feedback if you used too much compression. Tinker around with the old "smiley face" e.q. to see if that helps, then tweak it to get what you desire.
    Richard
    Green Valley Recording
    My cats have nine lives; my life has nine cats.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    2,826

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    I would try eq on the ouput. I prefer multiple bands, but you could probably carve out the problem
    with Bobs paragraphic no problem. I think I have stacked multiple of his in the past with different
    frequencies to simulate multibands.
    IMO stay away from 3rd party plugins as much as possible. When running a computer-based live rig you want to prioritize reliability and stability over everything else. One way to achieve that is to run RML processing only. Don't even install 3rd party plugs. In my experience that type of approach *can* make a difference when stable, low latency performance is required. I'm even gun-shy about using 3rd party shades.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    2,826

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    I would try eq on the ouput.
    I agree. To solve a speaker/room issue, stick with EQ.

    You may want a compressor on your output... but use it for musical reasons, not to correct a speaker coloration.

    Boxy sound you should be able to start with a broad single band of EQ and go from there. Try between 400Hz and say, 750, 850Hz-ish. Start with the 3oct BW and tweak as necessary.

    You could try a bass boost instead. If you think the system sounds thin, try a broad boost around 100Hz.

    The Bose sound is one that targets a flat power response or in-room response and this approach sometimes requires a little support in the low-end. This is how Bose got that reputation. Out in free space, far from walls and without sub support their speakers can sound quite bad.

    Speakers designed for a flat anechoic response are not flat in a room but instead have a power response that slopes downward from low to high frequencies and often flatten out around 1kHz.

    One of the great things about Bose speakers is they're generally quite durable. They're well-built and the drive units can take a beating.

    Alternatively you could 'ring out' the system, both your vocal mic and your guitar(s) - first individually, then as a group. This alone may solve the boxy sound.

    Last I'll point out you are sitting in front of that speaker and your ears may not be in the ideal position in the vertical plane. Try listening in different positions along the vertical axis and see what you learn. I'm familiar with those Bose systems however not the latest models... Does yours include a subwoofer module? I can't quite tell from the photos. Obviously a sub would change the overall warmth and therefore reduce the boxy-ness. Don't be afraid to EQ that system to suit your own tastes or playing position.
    Last edited by Naturally Digital; 02-15-2020 at 04:03 PM.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto Canada
    Posts
    2,826

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rupert View Post
    I would also be afraid that with the Bose speaker placed behind you, you would encourage feedback if you used too much compression.
    This is a very good point. Dell you may want to try sitting a little further from the speaker (or moving it back) and see how that is. Even in it's current position, you could try rotating it so you're not sitting directly on axis. This would really help with feedback and will naturally reduce the boxy and/or any honky sound you get.

    For live work you want to make sure the system sounds good for the audience. With that in mind you want to EQ and tune your rig at a distance, in the far-field. You can easily do this with a 'virtual soundcheck'... record yourself playing and then play that back while walking the room.

    Get the room sounding good first.

    Choose your playing position by listening in different points around and distances from the Bose. If you find a combo that works, adjust your setup accordingly.

    Great looking rig Dell! It's REALLY coming together!
    Last edited by Naturally Digital; 02-15-2020 at 03:43 PM.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    1,198

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Quote Originally Posted by Naturally Digital View Post
    IMO stay away from 3rd party plugins as much as possible. When running a computer-based live rig you want to prioritize reliability and stability over everything else. One way to achieve that is to run RML processing only. Don't even install 3rd party plugs. In my experience that type of approach *can* make a difference when stable, low latency performance is required. I'm even gun-shy about using 3rd party shades.
    There are plenty of 3rd party Plug-ins that work just fine. Clearly they need to be vetted for stability but there are lots that work without any issue and there is Zero reason not to use them.

    3rd party shades are also nothing to worry about, they are nothing more than graphics templates and shouldn't have any affect on stability.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Using a compressor on the ouput

    Does anyone have a suggestion for a multi-band compressor or dynamic EQ that works with SAC (zero latency)? That might be yet another solution.

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