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  1. #1

    Default Replacing regions

    Hey there-

    I know that we can replace source audio files via the file view, but I'm searching for a way to globally replace specific regions from a different audio file source. Perhaps there are other ways to accomplish what I'm trying to do.
    Here's the scenario:
    Track contains interview recorded in non-studio environment.
    Where editing is necessary and there are gaps, I need to insert room ambience.
    I do this with an "ambience" region, created from the same audio file as the interview... trimming to length and using multiple regions if the gap is longer than the single ambience region.
    I discovered problems with the ambience region audio source which effects almost all those regions... so these regions need to be replaced.
    I had to create a new ambience wav mixed from duplicate regions from the original recording because their wasn't enough clean ambient room sound to match the length of the original region being used.
    I will delete the original regions and manually insert and trim each instance of the replacement region from the new audio file...
    Unless there's a simpler way to do this in SAW.

    Does anyone have some direction on this - besides getting better ambient recordings on location :0)

    Thanks for your input.
    Kent
    Last edited by Kent F; 06-19-2020 at 11:20 AM.
    I love the story of Christmas - Matthew 1:18-24
    ___________________________________
    The Storyteller Radio Broadcast

  2. #2

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent F View Post
    Hey there-

    I know that we can replace source audio files via the file view, but I'm searching for a way to globally replace regions with a different audio file source. But perhaps there's other ways to accomplish what I'm trying to do.
    Here's the scenario:
    Track contains interview recorded in non-studio environment.
    Where editing is necessary I need to insert room ambience.
    I do this with an "ambience" region, trimming to length and using multiple regions if the gap is longer than the region.
    I discovered problems with the ambience region audio source which effects almost all those regions... so these regions need to be replaced.
    I had to create a new ambience wav mixed from on a couple of regions from the original recording because their wasn't enough clean ambient room sound to match the length of the original region being used.
    I will delete the original regions and manually insert and trim each instance of the replacement region from the new audio file...
    Unless there's a simpler way to do this in SAW.

    Does anyone have some direction on this - besides getting better ambient recordings on location :0)

    Thanks for your input.
    Kent
    I was just adding room tone bits while editing an interview today.

    It'd be simple enough to swap out the room tone source files if they were separate from files that you need to keep, but I'm guessing the room tone is sourced from the interview's spoken-word audio, yes?

    How 'bout something like this:

    0) Put the session tracks in numeric sequence (1, 2, 3...) if they're not already (ctrl-click on a track number) -- sorry to mess up your session layout.
    1) Create a copy of the entire session (EDL and sound files), giving it a new name, and putting it in a new folder.
    2) In this new session, use the File View functions to rename the room tone source file(s) to something new.
    3) Close SAW.
    4) Create your new room tone sound file(s), making it (them) as long or longer than the ones you just renamed.
    5) Replace each of the renamed room tone files with your new room tone files, copy/pasting the names from old to new (and deleting the old).
    6) Open the copied session in SAW (which will now have all your new room tone), and delete all the non-room-tone region entries from the MT (this is the tedious part).
    7) Save the session.
    8) Open the original session and BLEND the newer session into the MT to the right of and below any current regions.
    9) Select all the new, blended region entries, being sure the upper-left-most of them is the key entry.
    10) Place the cursor at the start of the upper-left-most (old) room tone region entry in the MT, being sure that its track is the hottrack.
    11) Hit the Backspace key. Click Yes on the Conflict Entry prompt.

    I think this will replace all your old room tone with your new room tone. You'll have some file organization to tend to afterward to keep everything tidy (delete what you don't need and put the new room tone files in the same folder as your other session files).

    There might be a better way. This is the first thing that comes to mind if you have lots of room tone region entries. As I mentioned the most tedious part is selecting all the non-room-tone region entries in the copied session; but at least you don't have to replace each room tone region entry manually.
    Last edited by Dave Labrecque; 06-19-2020 at 12:02 PM.
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  3. #3

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    There should be a simple way to just tell SAW which roomtone file to look at and all the existing regions should then use that file.
    I think you can do this by going to the VIEW/FILE menu. Select the file name you are already using from the list. Then use one of the Repath Selected Entries choices that you find appropriate and browse to the new roomtone file (best if you have a copy of it stored with the session). After doing so, close the File view and then Save your session - then reopen the session for everything to refresh.

    I believe that's all, but I'm not at a machine where I can test and verify my instructions. Maybe first make a copy of the session and use it or the original to test the process for yourself. Beats manually replacing all those regions.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Location
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    Posts
    409

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    The solution is simple:

    1.) Rename the original ambience file.
    2.) Rename the new ambience to the same name as the old one.

    3.) Open Sawstudio and verify that the original regions are now replaced with the new version.

    Note: I just tested it and it works ( the lenght of the old and new files I created where slightly different, ideally they should be the same)

    Hope this works for you as well!

    Cheers;
    Robert V.
    www.shinustudios.com
    www.art2ear.com


  5. #5

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    Quote Originally Posted by UpTilDawn View Post
    There should be a simple way to just tell SAW which roomtone file to look at and all the existing regions should then use that file.
    I think you can do this by going to the VIEW/FILE menu. Select the file name you are already using from the list. Then use one of the Repath Selected Entries choices that you find appropriate and browse to the new roomtone file (best if you have a copy of it stored with the session). After doing so, close the File view and then Save your session - then reopen the session for everything to refresh.

    I believe that's all, but I'm not at a machine where I can test and verify my instructions. Maybe first make a copy of the session and use it or the original to test the process for yourself. Beats manually replacing all those regions.
    The problem with that approach in my experience is that, typically, the room tone is taken from the same file as the dialogue, necessarily. So replacing that source file makes all the stuff you want to keep go away. This is especially true if the room tone changes over the course of the recording. You have to keep stealing recent bits as you go.

    Thus the need to create a new, separate room tone file. It does suggest a practice of building a separate room tone file from the git-go, though, if you think there's any chance you may need to change it all out at some point. I guess I've not had that experience, though. Seems like an uncommon occurrence to me.
    Last edited by Dave Labrecque; 06-20-2020 at 07:44 AM.
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  6. #6

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertV View Post
    The solution is simple:

    1.) Rename the original ambience file.
    2.) Rename the new ambience to the same name as the old one.

    3.) Open Sawstudio and verify that the original regions are now replaced with the new version.

    Note: I just tested it and it works ( the lenght of the old and new files I created where slightly different, ideally they should be the same)

    Hope this works for you as well!

    Cheers;
    Yes, the new file needs to be at least log enough to cover all the region assignments in its duration. I would play it safe and just make it longer than the original.

    But this approach assumes a separate room tone file from the start. Kent says he got the room tone from the interview audio file, which I'd think is standard practice. That's the room you gotta match, after all.
    Last edited by Dave Labrecque; 06-20-2020 at 07:49 AM.
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  7. #7

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Labrecque View Post
    The problem with that approach in my experience is that, typically, the room tone is taken from the same file as the dialogue, necessarily. So replacing that source file makes all the stuff you want to keep go away. This is especially true if the room tone changes over the course of the recording. You have to keep stealing recent bits as you go.

    Thus the need to create a new, separate room tone file. It does suggest a practice of building a separate room tone file from the git-go, though, if you think there's any chance you may need to change it all out at some point. I guess I've not had that experience, though. Seems like an uncommon occurrence to me.
    He did say that he'd created a new ambient wav file in his original post, so I assumed he'd not simply copied and pasted regions of ambient sound. My strategy does require the creation of an actual new wav file and I did make the assumption, so if he has simply made new regions from the original full length file, then it certainly was a mistake on my part to suggest the strategy.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    I'm not sure this applies in your situation, but it works pretty well for VO files that the client requires to be de-breathed.

    If you have ambiance or room tone that is consistent, ask everyone to be silent and record ?? seconds at the end of the session.

    Until you're sure this works the way you want, make a copy of the EDL and work on that.

    Edit the VO file, fixing pickups and deleting breaths, but leaving natural (often shorter) empty spaces for them.

    Add room tone regions on an adjacent track to cover all the spaces. Make sure each region starts before the breath space and ends after the breath space.

    Select every region on the VO track. (Click the first region, then hit the END key.)

    Move the entire VO track to the room tone track. You'll get the usual warning about replacing the bits that overlap. All the spaces will be filled with room tone.

    Select the entire room tone track.

    Move all the regions back to the VO track.

    In the OP's situation, this would mean deleting all the ambiance regions from the track, but leaving the spaces. It's a bit tedious, but if you zoom the wav forms vertically, it's pretty easy to click each one in Select mode, then hit the Delete key, and saves the very time-intensive chore of creating ambiance regions to match every space.

    HTH
    Ian Alexander
    VO Talent/Audio Producer
    www.IanAlexander.com

  9. #9

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    Quote Originally Posted by UpTilDawn View Post
    He did say that he'd created a new ambient wav file in his original post, so I assumed he'd not simply copied and pasted regions of ambient sound. My strategy does require the creation of an actual new wav file and I did make the assumption, so if he has simply made new regions from the original full length file, then it certainly was a mistake on my part to suggest the strategy.
    He did both. First (originally):

    "Where editing is necessary and there are gaps, I need to insert room ambience.
    I do this with an "ambience" region, created from the same audio file as the interview... "

    And then:

    "I had to create a new ambience wav mixed from duplicate regions from the original recording because their wasn't enough clean ambient room sound to match the length of the original region being used."

    But the former action made the latter action not so easy to apply as a fix to the bad room tone (due to high room tone region entry count, presumably). I'd think his former action, though, is the way it's typically done. That's how I've always done it. His mistake, I think, was not catching the problematic room tone early on. Definitely the kind of project you don't want to edit on laptop speakers.
    Last edited by Dave Labrecque; 06-21-2020 at 07:18 AM.
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  10. #10

    Default Re: Replacing regions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Labrecque View Post
    His mistake, I think, was not catching the problematic room tone early on.
    Yep, that was my mistake. Not sure how that happened. I'm usually pretty finicky about this. Thanks for all the input. Reading through your replies was helpful. I don't record separate room tone wavs.... and the problem I ran into really is uncommon... but, if it ever happened again, having a separate room tone wav file would make the fix much easier if the tone doesn't change over the course of the interview.

    Deleting all the relevant regions that need to be replaced is easy because I name my room tone region "Ambience". It and all it's relations sit at the top of the regions view where I can add, select, and delete as necessary.

    So, I have two episodes based on this original recording. Since there's apparently no "replace region" function as we can do with wav files, I did the work on the first episode as I originally described. It's done now. On this second episode, I'm considering experimenting with Ian's suggestion. It's a departure from the way that I typically add room noise, but I'm curious to see if it's a better method than I'm now using. I am more precise with zero-crossing the beginning of my ambience region and butting up to the front end of the gaps. Perhaps that's unnecessary.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Kent
    Last edited by Kent F; 06-22-2020 at 12:07 PM.
    I love the story of Christmas - Matthew 1:18-24
    ___________________________________
    The Storyteller Radio Broadcast

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