Saw Reverb?

[John Ludlow]

There are two reasons to move up to 64 bit, I think. The first is that a 32 bit OS is only capable of counting up to 2 to the 32nd.
That's 4,294,967,295. That's an issue because every RAM location available to the OS has to have a numeric 'address' - which means that a 32 bit OS is limited to addressing altogether a little over 4 GB. The operating system itself sets aside a bunch of that for its own personal use, which leaves around 3 GB and change. No matter how much RAM you put into your machine, Windows 32 is limited to addressing a little over 4, and SAW and SAC and any other software running on the machine concurrently, combined, will be limited to a little over 3. If you use a DAW, plus VST effects, plus VST instruments - you can easily chew through all of that in no time. Whereas a 64 bit OS can count to 2 to the 32nd addresses. Each additional bit doubles the previous total - and so that's a really big number. More RAM than anyone here can afford or any PC on Earth can hold physically. But, you could install, say 32 GB, Windows 64 will address it all, and then your VSTi will never run out of available addressing for more instruments. Cary, I'm not really talking to you here. I know you know all this. But maybe it will help someone else.

And the second reason is that, as people have mentioned, 64 bits is where the future of digital music is going. So computer synths, samplers, VST FX, etc - in the same way that you can't get 16 bit versions anymore - you, eventually, won't be able to get 32 bit versions. I also kind of wonder whether Microsoft will eventually tire of supporting 32 bit Windows. Not yet though, clearly.

There are disadvantages too. Windows XP was the last potentially super-stable version for SAC/SAW (although you can't buy a motherboard for XP anymore). There are a lot more background processes in Windows 10 than there were in Windows XP. If one holds up the show long enough to overrun a SAW record buffer - those moments are lost forever. Those of us who have moved over have mostly had to spend a lot of time tracking down the causes and eliminating them and some of us have gone to great lengths. Still - it's working for me now, at least. I'm really happy with the stability detente I've arranged with SAC/SAW 64. I'm happy I moved. Sometimes I miss Bob's native reverb. But I have others. You don't get the same result with them - but it can definitely be a good result just the same.

[mr_es335]

John,
"There are two reasons to move up to 64 bit, I think. The first is that a 32 bit OS is only capable of counting up to 2 to the 32nd." ... This reasoning does go back a bit. In light of what I have both seen and have read about, the 32-bit versus 64-bit debacle is again a rather moot point. At least to me anyhow.

"Windows XP was the last potentially super-stable version for SAC/SAW (although you can't buy a motherboard for XP anymore)." .... Agree...and not entirely so, John. In September of last year, I helped an acquaintance setup a 32-bit XP-based system on a the new motherboard. So, if you do your homework, there are boards out there that will still run XP.

"There are a lot more background processes in Windows 10 than there were in Windows XP." ... Again, very true. However, obtaining the LTSC version of Windows 10 resolves most of these bloat-ware issues.

[John Ludlow]

John,
"There are two reasons to move up to 64 bit, I think. The first is that a 32 bit OS is only capable of counting up to 2 to the 32nd." ... This reasoning does go back a bit. In light of what I have both seen and have read about, the 32-bit versus 64-bit debacle is again a rather moot point. At least to me anyhow.

Well, it would matter to you if you ran out of RAM which I often did. I presume that you probably don't run out, due to what you have told me privately, because you don't try to change the sound after the performance. And maybe you only have one track per recording? And I further presume that you also never have an open VSTi, for the same reason. So, 3 GB is maybe plenty for you - and that's great. I, however, fought the RAM limit for many years with multiple copies of the Kontakt VSTi open as well as VST effects - and I'm very grateful to have 32 gig to work with now. And I suspect it may be the same for others. I know it used to be an issue for a lot of people, but they might have moved on to other DAWs in the meantime. Now it is not an issue for SAC and SAW either. And that's a good thing.

"Windows XP was the last potentially super-stable version for SAC/SAW (although you can't buy a motherboard for XP anymore)." .... Agree...and not entirely so, John. In September of last year, I helped an acquaintance setup a 32-bit XP-based system on a the new motherboard. So, if you do your homework, there are boards out there that will still run XP.

Well, that is surprising - but good to know too.

"There are a lot more background processes in Windows 10 than there were in Windows XP." ... Again, very true. However, obtaining the LTSC version of Windows 10 resolves most of these bloat-ware issues.

There are still issues and there are still a lot of open processes. They're not necessarily bloat-ware, I don't think. But they're out there and periodically compete to do things like write to disk. They, seemingly, can be overcome though. Oddly, I still have to run my system for awhile after boot to subsequently get clean recordings. Still - I can do that and I don't turn my studio machine off very often. I can live with it for the freedom that 32 gig of RAM affords me.

[jmh]

Oddly, I still have to run my system for awhile after boot to subsequently get clean recordings.

I would think its something like updates, cloud storage, adobe and malware scans... I always island my studio machine from the net and turn all of those processes off. I just retired my XP p4. Still worked great but I was getting concerned. An undesirable side effect was win10 (believe me I tried to get XP on the new machine) also retired my Mackie onyx due to dropping legacy firewire support.

I have been using several waves plugins which causes projects to stagger around while they load and check licensing - probably trying to hit the cloud too. Very un-saw like. That is reminding my of Awinda (which was mentioned on another post) - while I liked those plugins, if they ever get upgraded, I wont be buying them unless the idiotic un-supported licensing is dropped.

[mr_es335]

John,

"...with multiple copies of the Kontakt VSTi open as well as VST effects - and I'm very grateful to have 32 gig to work with now. And I suspect it may be the same for others..." ... I solved this issue by using VE Pro with KONTAKT. Even with lots of RAM,. I would still opt to use a dedicated system via VE Pro.

"...There are still issues and there are still a lot of open processes...." ... have you actually looked into LTSC? I have mine down to 48 processes.

"Oddly, I still have to run my system for awhile after boot to subsequently get clean recordings..." ... This is very odd! I would love to do a remote session with you to have a look see at what is going on there. Something just does NOT seem right here?!

[Warren]

John,

"...with multiple copies of the Kontakt VSTi open as well as VST effects - and I'm very grateful to have 32 gig to work with now. And I suspect it may be the same for others..." ... I solved this issue by using VE Pro with KONTAKT. Even with lots of RAM,. I would still opt to use a dedicated system via VE Pro.

"...There are still issues and there are still a lot of open processes...." ... have you actually looked into LTSC? I have mine down to 48 processes.

"Oddly, I still have to run my system for awhile after boot to subsequently get clean recordings..." ... This is very odd! I would love to do a remote session with you to have a look see at what is going on there. Something just does seem right here?!

Hi Dell
48 Processes wow!
Sorry a bit off topic but I also still use Win 10 LTSC ENT
If you get a chance can you list the Services you have left running?
My system is trimmed down quite a lot but I still am running 992 threads in 104 processes.
It runs well but am always wanting to get more out of it.
I also use Process Lasso Pro for affinity.
Intel I7-9700K 3.60GHz, ASUS B360 plus, 32 gig ram, SSD drives, Two RME HDSP8652 cards.
Thanks
Warren

[Dave Labrecque]

Bear in mind that there are ways to use 32-bit plugins in SAW 64, IIRC. FWIW.

I can't remember if Chainer or other Chainer-like VSTs are the way to do that. But I believe they're out there.

[MMP]

32 bit Vsts-yes. 32 bit SAW plugins-no.

Bear in mind that there are ways to use 32-bit plugins in SAW 64, IIRC. FWIW.

I can't remember if Chainer or other Chainer-like VSTs are the way to do that. But I believe they're out there.

[mr_es335]

Warren,

Have a peep at this: Optimize Windows 10 for LIVE SOUND

Also check out:

OOSU10
WinaeroTweaker
Debotnet

[Warren]

Warren,

Have a peep at this: Optimize Windows 10 for LIVE SOUND

Also check out:

OOSU10
WinaeroTweaker
Debotnet

Thanks for the reply Dell
I am using the OOSU10, but certainly will try the others.
Sorry to all for hijacking this thread. Not my intent.
Thank you
Warren