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Thread: Isolating drums

  1. #1

    Default Isolating drums

    My musical efforts have been as a songwriter and my saw activities have been mostly to document that. Lately I've been migrating toward getting more pro quality results, as if I don't actually record some of this stuff for real, it will never happen. Anyway, I've been recording with a live drummer a bit lately and trying a few different approaches to capturing the kit. Lately I have a SM32? condenser around 6" out and 1/3rd up the kick -> tube channel strip, NT2A overheads, an SM81 near the toms, a sm57 above and an ancient sm57 variant under the snare. I've also been using a couple of ribbons ricocheting off the cathedral ceiling and almost everyone else in the null nodes just as an experiment (which is actually returning some interesting results). Anyway, it is getting there and a few recordings have been fine but since those drum sets are obnoxiously loud, each of the mics pick up some of everything and I'm thinking it would be easier if I could get more isolation (maybe mostly the kick). For one or two of the more problematic tunes I replicated the kick sliding the lower numbered track left as a gate trigger. I'm curious if you guys try to isolate kicks and if so, what approaches seem to work?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Isolating drums

    I would suggest keeping the number of mics to a maximum of four. Kick, snare, stereo overheads. Align the stereo pair so that they cover the width of the drums, but keep each the exact same distance from the snare drum. In SS, try using a touch of high pass filtering on the snare, and low pass filtering on the kick. Use the gates on the kick and snare and then mix in the level of the stereo overheads until the kit sounds natural. You may find you need to moderate the amount the gates are ducking the signals to achieve a good sound. Sometimes a small amount of high pass filtering on the overheads is desirable. From there, depending on the style of music you are producing, compression, saturation, EQ or reverb might be appropriate.

    Other than using mic patterns to isolate drum signals, in a live room it's better to work with the room than to fight it, IMO.

    There are no rules, only opinions, but hopefully there are some things here with which to experiment.

    Have fun!
    Last edited by MMP; 01-09-2021 at 05:41 AM.
    Michael McInnis Productions

  3. #3

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Quote Originally Posted by MMP View Post
    You may find you need to moderate the amount the gates are ducking the signals to achieve a good sound.
    It is funny you mention that, as on the tracks where I gated the kick, when it seemed to sit nicest with the attack and release passing most of kick, was with only about 15dB of attenuation.

    I can mic acoustic guitars pretty reliably. But to me guitars are living individuals that each have a unique voice that radiates out different frequencies from different spots in different directions, which cascade at various distances - all of which changes with different players. All of that invites you to visualize what is happening and seek out the sweetest spots to put a mic, but it is funny that drum challenge is making me listen in new ways. Every time you turn on the radio, drums are there and for me, I just don't tend to focus on them - but at the same time it is pretty obvious that they are focal points within so many songs. I guess it is because they are only drums - maybe I have to rethink that too...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    I think drums and upright bass are at the top of the list of challenging instruments to mic. In recent years, I have been happy with 2 ribbons overhead, a kick, and one snare mic on top. You can put some sound baffling of sorts behind the ribbons if you are having issues with sound bouncing off the wall or ceiling and into the back of the mic. I prefer a big room. Tuning and using good quality heads is always crucial. For processing, I add a touch of high end because of the ribbons and compress the drums as a unit/subgroup with a medium attack and release.

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    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Quote Originally Posted by Grekim View Post
    I think drums and upright bass are at the top of the list of challenging instruments to mic. In recent years, I have been happy with 2 ribbons overhead, a kick, and one snare mic on top. You can put some sound baffling of sorts behind the ribbons if you are having issues with sound bouncing off the wall or ceiling and into the back of the mic. I prefer a big room. Tuning and using good quality heads is always crucial. For processing, I add a touch of high end because of the ribbons and compress the drums as a unit/subgroup with a medium attack and release.
    Question does the room affect your mic choice or do you just like the mics you use on the drums you use them on?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Quote Originally Posted by Microstudio View Post
    Question does the room affect your mic choice or do you just like the mics you use on the drums you use them on?
    Sorry I missed your question. In my opinion, if the room is good then you'll go for whatever mic sounds best on the kit. If the room is challenging then the mic choice is more about dealing with the room first and then enhancing the drums second. So again, I really like the ribbons, but I also like omni's overhead. In either a big room or small these types of mics make the toms much bigger sounding and just an overall more blended sound.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Quote Originally Posted by Grekim View Post
    Sorry I missed your question. In my opinion, if the room is good then you'll go for whatever mic sounds best on the kit. If the room is challenging then the mic choice is more about dealing with the room first and then enhancing the drums second. So again, I really like the ribbons, but I also like omni's overhead. In either a big room or small these types of mics make the toms much bigger sounding and just an overall more blended sound.
    Hmm, I've been using NT2As for overheads. Of course you are limited to what you have - and also have to prioritize your needs as you deploy gear for best utilization. Its funny, we all have to go through this decision process and those factors collectively have a big impact on what you are capturing - or maybe better to say, what you capture.

    Going back to NT2A overhead, I've been using them in cardioid, which works out pretty good, but I'll have to experiment and see how they do in the other patterns. I shied away from figure8 as there is a shelf over the drum kit - but if I pulled it forward a couple of feet, there would be a cathedral ceiling over the back lobes.

    As I said, I'm using ribbons as room mics ricocheting off the ceiling as an experiment - a royer 121 and an AT4080 active ribbon more because they were not being used. But the tracks I've gotten have been interesting, and a some are now mixed into songs, but not really as stereo pairs or panned L & R. Anyway if I'm moving the kit away from my shelf, I could use the ribbons as overheads. Although they are both ribbons, they are way different. The AT4080 has an unbelievably long proximity range (it has captured pretty nice vocals). This brings the question on what is everyone's thinking on matching and pairing mics for stereo?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh View Post
    Hmm, I've been using NT2As for overheads. Of course you are limited to what you have - and also have to prioritize your needs as you deploy gear for best utilization. Its funny, we all have to go through this decision process and those factors collectively have a big impact on what you are capturing - or maybe better to say, what you capture.

    Going back to NT2A overhead, I've been using them in cardioid, which works out pretty good, but I'll have to experiment and see how they do in the other patterns. I shied away from figure8 as there is a shelf over the drum kit - but if I pulled it forward a couple of feet, there would be a cathedral ceiling over the back lobes.

    As I said, I'm using ribbons as room mics ricocheting off the ceiling as an experiment - a royer 121 and an AT4080 active ribbon more because they were not being used. But the tracks I've gotten have been interesting, and a some are now mixed into songs, but not really as stereo pairs or panned L & R. Anyway if I'm moving the kit away from my shelf, I could use the ribbons as overheads. Although they are both ribbons, they are way different. The AT4080 has an unbelievably long proximity range (it has captured pretty nice vocals). This brings the question on what is everyone's thinking on matching and pairing mics for stereo?
    You'd have to try the unmatched mics and see. I know an engineer who used overheads on different sides of the kit, like 5 feet apart. So, in that case it probably doesn't matter that they are not matched. For a blumlein approach closely spaced pair then, yeah it would be not so good. For me, the ribbons (or omnis) eliminate the need for mic'ing individual toms, cymbals and hi-hat. By varying the distance you mix in the amount of room sound.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Grekim,

    Do you use a typical overhead geometry?

    My approach lately is to try to move around for sound the kick and OHs along what would be a sphere centered on the snare head. I only occasionally record a drummer, and then it is on the same kit in the same room, so have limited experience with this.

    The overheads seem to wind up maybe 2 or 3 feet apart. I try to adjust and aim them to improve on what I got the last time according to what was too much or little - but I find once things are rolling, these things are details I can't take in until afterwards.

    The recordings have been pretty good - but the goal is for fantastic...

    John

  10. #10

    Default Re: Isolating drums

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh View Post
    Grekim,

    Do you use a typical overhead geometry?

    My approach lately is to try to move around for sound the kick and OHs along what would be a sphere centered on the snare head. I only occasionally record a drummer, and then it is on the same kit in the same room, so have limited experience with this.

    The overheads seem to wind up maybe 2 or 3 feet apart. I try to adjust and aim them to improve on what I got the last time according to what was too much or little - but I find once things are rolling, these things are details I can't take in until afterwards.

    The recordings have been pretty good - but the goal is for fantastic...

    John
    Somehow I settled on just spacing them at the typical 6 1/2 inch distance, more or less above a point between kick and snare, about 2 feet above the rack tom. I admit this may not be great for mono compatibility.

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