Need Ideas for connecting 24-ch of analog preamps to non-pci interfaces

[UpTilDawn]

I'm finding myself up against the need to replace my once-trusty pci-based desktop pc with 3 pci card slots, combined with 3 RME Multiface units and pci cards. I've got a couple possible replacement pcs - a Lenovo with 3 pcie slots, or a Dell with one pci and one pcie slot - both are Intel i7 machines and I've already confirmed that they could possibly replace the flaky pc.

My question is - how best to keep my 24 channels of Presonus M80 preamps and connect them to a system that will force me to possibly abandon my trusty RME Multifaces? Or am I overlooking some alternative system revamp that will get me 24 channels of quality pci preamps into one of these 2 pc options at a cost that won't break the bank?

I guess that's really at least 2 questions...
But this is really beginning to stress me out, since I've been wrestling with a pc that just isn't cutting it anymore, for nearly a year now. I really would like to keep the M80 preamps if possible, because they have served me very well and I know I can't afford to actually upgrade 24 channels worth of preamps up the next quality notch.

[cgrafx]

I don't think anybody is making PCI based solutions that would fill the space of your previous RME interface. If your preamps already had A/D converters and ADAT/MADI/AVB/etc support than your options would be greater, but you only have analog preamps, so will need something that can go Line Level -> A/D -> computer.

you'll have to look at something like the MOTU 24Ai. see https://motu.com/products/avb/24ai-24ao

USB3 will easily support 24channels.

[AntonZ]

There are PCIe - PCI converters that would allow you to run a PCI card in a PCIe slot. Not sure how well this works with sound cards. I ordered one of these things when I was in a somewhat similar situation. The converter took a long time to arrive, so in the mean time I got myself an RME Digiface USB and never got around to try the converter.

The converters are cheap, especially when compared to 24 channels of quality preamps. You may have to improvise a bit with the physical layout inside your PC case as standard card positioning does not work with these converters.

[jmh]

You might consider something like this:

https://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-24R

I had to give up my RME hammerfall at some upgrade, and then my Mackie ONYX with firewire. They were both rock solid and working. Progress sucks.

The problem with the device I linked to is that it is a mixer which you will invariably use - but without a surface. I have been tracking with a similar setup, a behringer x18 which also has no surface. It has 16 mic pres, is inexpensive, and sounds fantastic (particularly for $450). I bought it because I had worked quite a bit on an XR18 (nearly identical, but in different form factor) and knew it. Anyway I am using outboard preamps for key channels too. It all works quite well, but I really miss having a surface and would like to switch to something like a StudioLive 32sx.

I find navigating PC interfaces to do tweaks like adjusting headphone mixes can be a bit disruptive and more confusing then just glancing at a console and grabbing a fader. Anyway, I'm not as quick switching to a different application and locating the mouse cursor. It always takes me a few seconds to orient myself when switching to different software and then between digging to the page or tab you might need and finding that parameter control, then there is getting back to what you were originally doing. If you multiply 15 or 30 second disruptions by many little adjustments, it can become a drag on a session. Or another way of putting it is if I can do most of those adjustments in a couple of seconds, it's something that contributes to a flowing session.

I'm not saying the other way doesn't work - because there are people who can move like lightning on a computer - just not me.

[cgrafx]

I see that there are also Legacy RME PCIE cards that I believe would work with your existing Multiface units.

https://www.proaudiosolutions.com/RM.../pcie-card.htm

[jmh]

Are the M80's just great preamps, or are they converters too?

Regarding the non-pci interfaces, it is quite possible that the drivers are no longer maintained. You get locked out of win2000 or xp when getting a modern machine because the chipsets are not supported and have to go to win10. I found documented methods of getting the win8 legacy firewire drivers on win10 got the firewire card (I actually tried a few) only to discover as of a particular build, MS dropped support of the legacy firewire drivers.

[Dave Labrecque]

Are the M80's just great preamps, or are they converters too?

Regarding the non-pci interfaces, it is quite possible that the drivers are no longer maintained. You get locked out of win2000 or xp when getting a modern machine because the chipsets are not supported and have to go to win10. I found documented methods of getting the win8 legacy firewire drivers on win10 got the firewire card (I actually tried a few) only to discover as of a particular build, MS dropped support of the legacy firewire drivers.

I might be talking out of school, here, but RME has historically been really good about updating drivers of legacy devices for new OS's. Might be worth looking into.

And this might not be relevant, but remember that the RME PCI and PCIe cards are using the Firewire-like cabling/connectors BUT an entirely different, proprietary data transfer protocol over that cable. Firewire support by MS would not be relevant. Only RME driver support. Though, like I said, this may not be what you're referring to, jmh.

[cgrafx]

Are the M80's just great preamps, or are they converters too?

Regarding the non-pci interfaces, it is quite possible that the drivers are no longer maintained. You get locked out of win2000 or xp when getting a modern machine because the chipsets are not supported and have to go to win10. I found documented methods of getting the win8 legacy firewire drivers on win10 got the firewire card (I actually tried a few) only to discover as of a particular build, MS dropped support of the legacy firewire drivers.

The M80's are just preamps with Line-Level outputs, no converters. If they had ADAT out there would be a lot more options.

[UpTilDawn]

Thanks for all the great help you guys....
I'm slowly working it out.
The plan now is to use rme's pcie cards (thanks for that suggestion, by the way).
I found a couple for an okay price (relative to everything else I've considered so far) and now I'm committing the Dell i7 to a new install of Win10 LTSC-2019 (I expected to do a clean install, but it did NOT delete/wipe the drive as it appeared to say it would - But it was already a barebones win10 pro install, so maybe this "upgrade" won't be an issue... we'll see).

The Dell actually has 1 pcie, 1 pci and 2 pcie x16 slots. It's my understanding that I can put at least 2 pcie rme cards in this to get 16 channels of analog pres....... I'm wondering if I can use the pci slot for the 3rd card (if I decide I can't live without 24 channels of analog) and use it simultaneously with the pair of pcie cards. I haven't found a hint of that scenario in discussions yet. If anybody has any ideas about this, I'm all ears!

It's not so much that those M80s are spectacular preamps - they are very good though - but they are much more tweakable than whatever ADAT units I have and those are all tied up in location recording racks (not that I've done a lot of that in the past year and a half). I'd considered switching to the Digiface USB, but I'd have to turn over one of my 2 location racks over to studio use and I'm not sure I like the sound of those preamps nearly as much for quiet studio recording.

I'm getting excited about the switchover now - thanks to your enthusiastic assistance! Thanks so much. I've got nobody else around me that knows this stuff anymore.

[Dave Labrecque]

UTD,

One approach would be to pick up a used Digiface and use your Multiface boxes as stand-alone AD/DA for it. It's not a perfect approach, but maybe you'd find it workable. Check this thread out:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=9630