Feed SS master out to more than one device pair?

[Cary B. Cornett]

For reasons including, but not limited to, doing live collaborative session work over the Internet, I have some odd signal routing needs in my studio, and I need to integrate SawStudio into this weirdness.

For some things, I need to effectively do a 3-way split of the master output, not all the time, but for specific situations. So far the "worst case" scenario is, in addition to the usual feed to my studio monitor controller, a stereo feed to my headphone cue system, and another pair looped back into a hardware input to let me send out live audio over an internet link (so far either using Zoom or SessionWire).

Now, last I knew, from the master out bus one can only select ONE stereo hardware out. I think I understand the reasoning behind this, but I would really like to be able to send the master mix to two additional stereo outs. Presently, I use the first pair to feed my monitor controller, the second pair to my headphone cue system, and the fourth pair to loop back into device inputs 5 and 6. I want to be able to do this post fader on the master.

My first guess for how to do this would be to have a VST plugin that can act as either an FX send or a feed to a hardware output. Can anyone recommend a known good solution for this?

[cgrafx]

There are 24 SS master outs. Just assign your current master output to a 2nd and/or 3rd master and route those masters to your additional device pairs.

[Bob L]

Its easy... jump to the output section of the SS mixer... set out 1 to 1... out 2 to 2... out 3 to 3... etc to have each output go straight to its corresponding hardware ouput pair... then go to each input track chan and assign the chan to multiple outs... then you will have the entire mix being fed to x number of hardware outputs... each with its own faders and its own bus pre/pst plugins... so you can have an eq for the speakers, another for the headphones...etc.

Bob L

[Cary B. Cornett]

Its easy... jump to the output section of the SS mixer... set out 1 to 1... out 2 to 2... out 3 to 3... etc to have each output go straight to its corresponding hardware ouput pair... then go to each input track chan and assign the chan to multiple outs... then you will have the entire mix being fed to x number of hardware outputs... each with its own faders and its own bus pre/pst plugins... so you can have an eq for the speakers, another for the headphones...etc.

Bob L

Well, here is where I run into a problem. I use submixes in sessions, such as drums, vocals, etc. and then assign these back to bus 1 for the master. I want to be able to feed the exact same overall balance to more than one output pair, perhaps as many as 3. My understanding has been that you can only assign an output track to one place at a time, either to its own numbered pair or to a output track with a lower number. I also understand that I cannot do three or more layers of this, meaning that I cannot, for example, assign output tracks 7 and 8 to output track 2, and then assign output track 2 to output track 1. And again, I cannot assign an output track to another output track with a higher number.

Have I understood this correctly?
And if so, how else can I work around it while keeping my submixes and having the sum of those submixes fed to more than one set our outputs?

[Dave Labrecque]

Cary,

How 'bout this?

Example:

Drums to Output "track" 10, which assigns to hardware Output "tracks" 1, 2, and 3
Vocals to Output "track" 11, which assigns to hardware Output "tracks" 1, 2, and 3
Keys to Output "track" 12, which assigns to hardware Output "tracks" 1, 2, and 3

And any non-submixed channels also feed Output "tracks" 1, 2, and 3

Output "tracks" 1, 2, and 3 are each assigned to their respective hardware outputs.

I just tied it with multiple ASIO-4-ALL "hardware" outputs (I don't currently have a multi-channel interface connected) and SAW didn't complain with all the routing settings. One layer of nesting the output tracks has always been okay, I believe. Playback seemed to work.

Yes, I believe you can only assign output tracks to lower-numbered output tracks (and expect success). The other thing is that the only way to assign output tracks to hardware outputs is to assign an output track to it's same-numbered device output. E.g. Output track 1 to device out 1, Output track 2 to device out 2, etc.

[Bob L]

For more out assignment options try using SAC as a front end with the SACLink to SAWStudio.

Bob L

[cgrafx]

Its easy... jump to the output section of the SS mixer... set out 1 to 1... out 2 to 2... out 3 to 3... etc to have each output go straight to its corresponding hardware ouput pair... then go to each input track chan and assign the chan to multiple outs... then you will have the entire mix being fed to x number of hardware outputs... each with its own faders and its own bus pre/pst plugins... so you can have an eq for the speakers, another for the headphones...etc.

Bob L

This would definitely work, but you can't do a master fader for the entire mix to each of the outputs, only subgroups to each of the outputs. (So you end up with a master fader for each feed - actually not a bad solution).

[Cary B. Cornett]

There are 24 SS master outs. Just assign your current master output to a 2nd and/or 3rd master and route those masters to your additional device pairs.

I thought I wasn't allowed to do that, particularly with nested submixes.

[cgrafx]

I thought I wasn't allowed to do that, particularly with nested submixes.

I'ts been so long since I have used SawStudio standalone without SAC that I had forgotten how limited the routing was.

Your right you cannot route a submix output module to another submix output module only to direct outs.

So two options...

1. Get SAC and use that as your front end to SAW Studio.. This is removes all of the routing constraints imposed by SAW Studio.

2. Do your routing in hardware... You've got a physical output, just split that and connect it to your other stream feeds.

If you can afford Option 1, it has so many other benefits that it really should be your first choice.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I finally took the time to do some proper testing. I made some interesting discoveries along the way.

The design goal was to feed my main mix to three sets of hardware outputs:
One for control room monitor,
One for headphone cue feed,
and one pair for a loop through to an input pair to feed a remote connection over the web (we have been testing both Sessionwire and the Audiomovers "Listento" application).

I needed to have my main mix be on Output track 1, because that is what the master fader on my Behringer X-control acts on.
Thing is, I can have it feed either a hardware output or other busses, but not both. I decided to have my first output pair on Output track 2, the second on Output track 3, and so on. But I found that SS would not let me leave Output track one with no output device, so I sent it to a higher number output pair that I don't use.

My first four output tracks are now labeled 2mix, CR mon, Cans, and Net out.

The session I tried this on is very simple, with no submixes. It works fine.
Buit now I remember that I often use submixes, each of which is, of course, routed back to Output track 1.

So now I have a new question: Will SS let me feed multiple submixes into OT 1, and then feed OT 1 to other output tracks as needed? Or is nesting that deep locked out?