Have any of you played with the colour system (or heard it)?

[jmh]

This was a curiosity I came across which may be pretty cool...

https://www.diyrecordingequipment.co...cts/colour-duo

[Ian Alexander]

OK, I'll offer the standard response: You can get the colors you want through mic selection, preamp, EQ, etc. But I might be missing something. What does it do?

[John Ludlow]

OK, I'll offer the standard response: You can get the colors you want through mic selection, preamp, EQ, etc. But I might be missing something. What does it do?

I was baffled at first, and then the anonymous 'color' knobs seemed like a newbie trap ("turn up the blue knob to sound like Stevie Ray..."). But now I'm intrigued...

It looks as if it is two extremely flat analog mic pres that you can add analog distortion (the pleasing kind...) to. The distortion comes in little module boards that are plug-n-play. They sell a bunch of different ones that you can install up to three of at a time of (hence the anonymous 'color' knobs). They sell a bunch of options. For instance, one seems to be the circuit from an old 15 ips tape deck that adds compression and harmonic distortion. I'm guessing some of the other ones are emulations of '60s and '70s studio board circuits. The old analog studio boards all added their own particular sound, and Neve sounded different than API. Each of the color boards aims to add a particular classic distortion that will 'color' (distort...) the sound in a particular way.

And I think their idea is that the color boards will ultimately become like 500 series modules (which they also sell...) except strictly for mic pres. They give you the framework, the clean pres, and the power supply - and you add your choice of 'color' boards. I haven't checked, but I presume there is a standard that color cards can be created to - so that the DIY community can add to the list of ways the sound can be colored. At least, they do sell empty color boards.

That $650 price tag sounds pretty cheap at first. But, of course, this is the DIY universe and for that price you have to solder it yourself. Also - you get no color modules for that price either. It looks like they'll build it for you for another $300. And then you have to start adding 'colors' so eventually you maybe have more than 2 grand involved. On the other hand, most of the available color cards are under $100, which makes them cheap compared to even 500 series components. And... non-DIY world-class mic pres are not cheap either.

Whether it's ultimately worth the money or not depends completely on how accurate the color boards are, I think. There are a lot of 500 series modules that claim to sound like a Neve pre. Many of them don't - not really... The only professional review I could find was that Tape Op review that they quote at their site - which is generally positive. Here it is in its entirety:

https://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/144/...nel-strip-kit/

And so, at this point I think I've caught up with John. Has anyone actually tried one of these?

[jcgriggs]

I was baffled at first, and then the anonymous 'color' knobs seemed like a newbie trap ("turn up the blue knob to sound like Stevie Ray..."). But now I'm intrigued...

It looks as if it is two extremely flat analog mic pres that you can add analog distortion (the pleasing kind...) to. The distortion comes in little module boards that are plug-n-play. They sell a bunch of different ones that you can install up to three of at a time of (hence the anonymous 'color' knobs). They sell a bunch of options. For instance, one seems to be the circuit from an old 15 ips tape deck that adds compression and harmonic distortion. I'm guessing some of the other ones are emulations of '60s and '70s studio board circuits. The old analog studio boards all added their own particular sound, and Neve sounded different than API. Each of the color boards aims to add a particular classic distortion that will 'color' (distort...) the sound in a particular way.

And I think their idea is that the color boards will ultimately become like 500 series modules (which they also sell...) except strictly for mic pres. They give you the framework, the clean pres, and the power supply - and you add your choice of 'color' boards. I haven't checked, but I presume there is a standard that color cards can be created to - so that the DIY community can add to the list of ways the sound can be colored. At least, they do sell empty color boards.

That $650 price tag sounds pretty cheap at first. But, of course, this is the DIY universe and for that price you have to solder it yourself. Also - you get no color modules for that price either. It looks like they'll build it for you for another $300. And then you have to start adding 'colors' so eventually you maybe have more than 2 grand involved. On the other hand, most of the available color cards are under $100, which makes them cheap compared to even 500 series components. And... non-DIY world-class mic pres are not cheap either.

Whether it's ultimately worth the money or not depends completely on how accurate the color boards are, I think. There are a lot of 500 series modules that claim to sound like a Neve pre. Many of them don't - not really... The only professional review I could find was that Tape Op review that they quote at their site - which is generally positive. Here it is in its entirety:

https://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/144/...nel-strip-kit/

And so, at this point I think I've caught up with John. Has anyone actually tried one of these?

I have these. The preamp is, as you say, a nice clean 2 channel solid state device - IMHO almost worth the entry price for the kit on its own if you want/need a nice clean preamp. The colour modules are what make it really worthwhile, though. They allow you to add almost any flavour of saturation/distortion (the vast majority of colour modules are in this category - various transformers, op-amps, JFets or distortion circuits) as well as filters or EQ, compression or even a (now sadly discontinued) delay/echo. The format is "open source" so modules and hosts are made by various companies - if you are interested you should definitely check out the offerings from Louder Than Liftoff (https://store.louderthanliftoff.com/collections/rgb) That being said, the DIY RE shop carries most of the available modules (https://www.diyrecordingequipment.co...ections/colour) There used to be another company that had a large selection of colour modules and hosts - Bart HRK - but they seem to have exited the market and discontinued all of their products over the pandemic.

Personally I am a fan and use the LTL Impulse (a credit card sized F series 1176 compressor clone) and Pentode (tube saturation and BAX EQ) modules extensively. You can find more user reviews for various host devices and modules on the store sites and there is also a thread on Gearspace: https://gearspace.com/board/so-much-...Colour+modules

Hope this helps,
John

PS Forgot to say that the DIY aspect of the Colour Duo is very well done. It might be a bit much for a first pro audio DIY project, but it is extremely well organized and documented and DIY RE support for builders (troubleshooting, etc.) is excellent. If you can solder a circuit board and follow instructions, you can probably build this device with no problems.

[jmh]

John,

I'm not really an outboard gear guy - however I do have a couple tube mic-pres and channel-strip that absolutely impart mojo - and this this thing might do that too. I've never used a neve or 1176 - but get it that they typically add some characteristics that are usually pleasing to the signals that pass through. Do you find it seems to match up (and why shouldn't an 1176 circuit sound like one) to the real McCoys?

I found it interesting that you liked the tube module. When I had looked up that tube, it was a mini-vacuum tube (and found a listing where I could buy 300,000 for $150,000 - I think manufactured by Ratheon. We the people probably already paid $100/tube for them back in 1962, and I am envisioning warehouses filled with these things like in Indiana Jones). Anyway, being a guitar player who is hooked on the vacuum, I was skeptical about those 50 cent freak tubes that I had never heard of...

Having too many unfinished projects, I should ask what the assembly time was on the modules you put together?

John

[John Ludlow]

Hi John - thanks for responding. One thing I wonder is: on, say, the original 1176 - it has input, output, attack, and release knobs, plus four ratio buttons (with the option of pressing all four of them in at once). How does a color card accomplish all of that optionality in just one knob? Or - does it? Are there hidden controls besides the one color knob assigned to it?

And original John - as to when an 1176 circuit does not sound like an 1176 - choice of components comes to mind. Maybe even relative positioning of components. But you would know better than I because I don't build them.

[jcgriggs]

John,

I'm not really an outboard gear guy - however I do have a couple tube mic-pres and channel-strip that absolutely impart mojo - and this this thing might do that too. I've never used a neve or 1176 - but get it that they typically add some characteristics that are usually pleasing to the signals that pass through. Do you find it seems to match up (and why shouldn't an 1176 circuit sound like one) to the real McCoys?

I found it interesting that you liked the tube module. When I had looked up that tube, it was a mini-vacuum tube (and found a listing where I could buy 300,000 for $150,000 - I think manufactured by Ratheon. We the people probably already paid $100/tube for them back in 1962, and I am envisioning warehouses filled with these things like in Indiana Jones). Anyway, being a guitar player who is hooked on the vacuum, I was skeptical about those 50 cent freak tubes that I had never heard of...

Having too many unfinished projects, I should ask what the assembly time was on the modules you put together?

John

I do not have enough experience with the "Real McCoys" to make any kind of meaningful comparison. I can only say that I'm happy with the results I get.
Not all Colour modules are available as kits - none of the LTL modules (the high end of Colour offerings, IMHO) are sold as kits, for example. That being said, I never spent more than a couple of hours assembling a Colour module kit and many of them would take less than an hour to build.

Hope this helps,
John

[jcgriggs]

Hi John - thanks for responding. One thing I wonder is: on, say, the original 1176 - it has input, output, attack, and release knobs, plus four ratio buttons (with the option of pressing all four of them in at once). How does a color card accomplish all of that optionality in just one knob? Or - does it? Are there hidden controls besides the one color knob assigned to it?

And original John - as to when an 1176 circuit does not sound like an 1176 - choice of components comes to mind. Maybe even relative positioning of components. But you would know better than I because I don't build them.

Colour modules offer limited control and are mostly designed to be set up before use rather than to be tweaked during playback. Some Colour modules have no adjustable parameters at all (other than Drive to set input and Mix to control the Wet/Dry signal balance) and even when they do have adjustable parameters beyond Drive and Mix, often you have a restricted choice of settings, selected via a jumper.
As an example, the LTL Implode module (which is the miniaturized rev. F 1176 compressor - I mistakenly referred to it as the Impulse previously) has jumpers that allow you to select the compression ratio (your choices are limited to 4:1 or "all buttons in") and to bypass the detection circuit to use the module as a line amp. And it has trim pots on the board for Attack, Release and Output level. A typical Colour Host has two external controls for the Colour modules and for the Implode the Drive control sets the Input level (this is typical for most modules) and the Mix control sets the amount of compressed signal - the effect of Mix is more variable, depending on the nature of the module. So, as I understand it, the Implode is the 1176 rev. F circuit implemented using surface mount components and with a very simplified control interface designed to be set up prior to use rather than tweaked by ear.

Hope this helps,
John

[John Ludlow]

Colour modules offer limited control and are mostly designed to be set up before use rather than to be tweaked during playback. Some Colour modules have no adjustable parameters at all (other than Drive to set input and Mix to control the Wet/Dry signal balance) and even when they do have adjustable parameters beyond Drive and Mix, often you have a restricted choice of settings, selected via a jumper.
As an example, the LTL Implode module (which is the miniaturized rev. F 1176 compressor - I mistakenly referred to it as the Impulse previously) has jumpers that allow you to select the compression ratio (your choices are limited to 4:1 or "all buttons in") and to bypass the detection circuit to use the module as a line amp. And it has trim pots on the board for Attack, Release and Output level. A typical Colour Host has two external controls for the Colour modules and for the Implode the Drive control sets the Input level (this is typical for most modules) and the Mix control sets the amount of compressed signal - the effect of Mix is more variable, depending on the nature of the module. So, as I understand it, the Implode is the 1176 rev. F circuit implemented using surface mount components and with a very simplified control interface designed to be set up prior to use rather than tweaked by ear.

Hope this helps,
John

Indeed it does. That seems like a relatively small loss of functionality for a ~25X reduction in price (if you already own the frame) and if the results are similarly legendary. I read that you can make hot swap changes of color boards. So, I suppose that means that you can also make hot-swap changes in control settings, although you wouldn't be able to tune them in by ear.

I find myself becoming inexplicably snobbish sometimes in thinking in terms of copy-products sounding identical to the original. That isn't even a standard that I hold new buys to. What one really needs is something whose result is as useful as the original. Or, maybe even almost as useful as the original if you don't want to put-out the premium for the original. From what you say, maybe this meets that criteria.

That said, the qualities that make the classic gear so appreciated are often nearly impossible to denotate, and often little variations in 'feel' make all the difference between pleasing and annoying. We're talking about distortion, after all. Original John's description of 'having mojo' is a demonstration of that, I think. When you listen to it, it either has "mojo" for you - or it doesn't, even if you couldn't put into words exactly what mojo means in that case. Analog gear is so difficult to buy un-heard for that reason, I think. It's probably also the reason that people still pay the premium for the original even if, unknown to them for sure, some of the duplications are spot-on. That is, Neve always sounds like Neve - whatever that is; BrandX - well... maybe - and if not, maybe you'll like it anyway and maybe you won't. But, again, a ~25X reduction in price makes that risk a lot more palatable at least.

[jcgriggs]

Indeed it does. That seems like a relatively small loss of functionality for a ~25X reduction in price (if you already own the frame) and if the results are similarly legendary. I read that you can make hot swap changes of color boards. So, I suppose that means that you can also make hot-swap changes in control settings, although you wouldn't be able to tune them in by ear.

I find myself becoming inexplicably snobbish sometimes in thinking in terms of copy-products sounding identical to the original. That isn't even a standard that I hold new buys to. What one really needs is something whose result is as useful as the original. Or, maybe even almost as useful as the original if you don't want to put-out the premium for the original. From what you say, maybe this meets that criteria.

That said, the qualities that make the classic gear so appreciated are often nearly impossible to denotate, and often little variations in 'feel' make all the difference between pleasing and annoying. We're talking about distortion, after all. Original John's description of 'having mojo' is a demonstration of that, I think. When you listen to it, it either has "mojo" for you - or it doesn't, even if you couldn't put into words exactly what mojo means in that case. Analog gear is so difficult to buy un-heard for that reason, I think. It's probably also the reason that people still pay the premium for the original even if, unknown to them for sure, some of the duplications are spot-on. That is, Neve always sounds like Neve - whatever that is; BrandX - well... maybe - and if not, maybe you'll like it anyway and maybe you won't. But, again, a ~25X reduction in price makes that risk a lot more palatable at least.

Well, the Colour Duo has a drawer and circuitry to disconnect power, etc. from the drawer so it can be removed without powering down the entire unit but you have no access to the Colour modules themselves while they are powered up and in the signal path, so you cannot make adjustments and hear the effect of your change at the same time. All of the other hosts that I am aware of are API x500 format and would require you to power down completely to swap or adjust the Colour Modules they are hosting (unless your 500 series rack provides access to the devices it hosts somehow). The only other non-500 series host I know of beside the Duo is the LTL Silver Bullet MkII and I am pretty sure you have to power it down and open the chassis to get at the Colour modules in its "C" slots.

If you check DIY RE's YouTube channel, you will find video demos of most of the available Colour modules that can give you an idea of what they sound like on some demo sounds.

As a disclaimer, I have to admit that I am pretty heavily invested in this format. Besides the DIY RE Colour Duo, I have a DIY RE Palette MkII, a pair of LTL Mr. Focus and a pair of LTL Chroma preamps in terms of hosts and I own at least one copy of most of the Colour modules ever sold commercially, particularly if they were sold as a kit. But I did not get into it with the idea of "Neve on the cheap" or anything like that - for me the appeal was just the configurability, low cost, enjoying DIY and liking some of the demos. Once in, I found most conceivable flavours of saturation and distortion are available, as well as decent filters and EQs, nice compression (both clean as in the LTL Implode and some of the Bart HRK devices, and dirty, like the MN-50 smash and Toneloc Level-Loc) and even a nice little delay line. With the exit of Bart HRK from the market and with LTL discontinuing some modules (like the much missed Pulse delay), the choice is a little more limited these days but there is still enough selection to be useful, IMHO.

As far as replacing a real 1176 (or a decent clone) with a Colour host and an Implode module, I think you'd be pretty disappointed by the limited controls and the lack of choice of compression ratios (4:1 or Implode!) It's much more of a one (or very few) trick pony than a dedicated compressor would be. Another analogy would that the Implode is more like a compressor built into a mixer channel than a dedicated piece of outboard gear.

Regards,
John