OT: WOW!

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I do sincerely hope that I will not be "rocking the boat" here?

So, first, here is the video: [Click_Me]
* Go to 5:33
* Compare with: 5:45

Second, I have no idea what the producer/engineer is doing here, but the "dry" vocals do not sound any where near the same as the "processed" vocals!

Is this right? Is this "ethical"? Is this just/now "the norm"?

Just "curious".

PS1: I have attended six of the late Julian Bream's concerts...and his live performances replicated his album recordings - not necessarily in context, but in actuality.
PS2: I then came across this" [Click_me]

[cgrafx]

the recording at 5:33 is a room mic, not the audio from the mics in front of the singers.

was there something else specific your referring to?

[mr_es335]

Philip,

It was simply the stark contrast between what the group sounded like in the studio [non-processed] as to what the group sounded like "after the fact" [processed]!

[Dave Labrecque]

Philip,

It was simply the stark contrast between what the group sounded like in the studio [non-processed] as to what the group sounded like "after the fact" [processed]!

A is (as Philip said) a room mic (camera mic?). B is a mix of the individual vocal mics, perhaps with some compression/EQ, and reverb. This difference is pretty much what one would expect, no?

[John F]

I'm a little late to this party, Dell, but I went through a similar education in the last few years. It seems like the goal of most classical music recording is to make the recording sound as true-to-life as possible to a live concert. To that end, you can get a perfectly good recording of a full orchestra with nothing more than a good hall and careful placement of a stereo pair of mics. When you start delving into the world of pop music, though, where everyone has their own mic (or pickup), then it becomes up to the producer to use whatever tools they have available to craft whatever sound they're looking for. You asked if that was ethical - I guess that would depend on your point of view. I'm thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that it should be important for a group to sound at least as good in concert as they do on their recordings. That vocal group in the video you posted - they had a choice; they could find an acoustically perfect room and gather in a semi-circle around a stereo pair of microphones and make a true-to-life recording that would sound like they're in your living room, or they could each have their own mic and tell the producer to make the best sound he/she could come up with. Obviously, they chose the latter, and I would think that locks them into a certain sound that their fans will expect when they see them live. Other vocal groups like The Kings Singers or Cantus make the former choice. As the end consumer, you get to vote with your dollars as to which approach you prefer.

[John Ludlow]

In my experience, in a live recording in an average room, there isn't one true sound to record. Every person in the audience hears something at least slightly different. Even the musicians on stage each hear something different. Everywhere you place or point the mic, the result will be unique. And any mic you employ will give a different result. Which one is the correct version, and which ones are the imposters? The sonic truth doesn't exist. Instead, the engineer arranges for the result to be what they believe will please someone who hears it next.

[John F]

The sonic truth doesn't exist. Instead, the engineer arranges for the result to be what they believe will please someone who hears it next.

Well put, John!

John Francis
Rolla, MO

[jmh]

>truth...

Live music is where you really get it. Virtuosity is certainly one type, which is a testament to ones' skill, taste and talent. But the old three chord adage is true; I've felt the whole experience from just sincerity of heart (actually the virtuoso without this isn't a true virtuoso, and the real masters try to wake their heart for us).

But engineers can be artists in their own right, and the disc can be the actual art form of the whole team - take the Beatles for example.

Engineers can certainly ruin a recording - but through talent, and skill, they can enhance, embellish, and add their own vision of heart. And that doesn't mean perfection - some of my favorite albums have plenty of rough edges left in the mix (although I get turned off if the mix isn't done competently). I would say most important is recognizing what is great in a performance, and not tweaking it away.

So my take is once you take the performer off the stage, anything goes. The again, if I was mixing a Julian Bream video - I'd hope it would come across that the magnificent sound is for real. You certainly can have problems; maybe someone's foot tapping on your mic-stand where you switch to video audio or whatever you have to do to recover.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I'm a little late to this party, Dell, but I went through a similar education in the last few years. It seems like the goal of most classical music recording is to make the recording sound as true-to-life as possible to a live concert. To that end, you can get a perfectly good recording of a full orchestra with nothing more than a good hall and careful placement of a stereo pair of mics.

While many excellent classical recordings have been made that way, not all classical producers/engineers work in that fashion. It is fairly common to have some "highlight" mics for some instruments, and sometimes there will be many mics distributed through the orchestra. I have seen this is some video productions, and Deutsche Grammophon at one time (1970s?) did full 24 track recordings, some of which were famous for revealing much detail in instrumental parts. So, even in classical there isn't just one way.

[cgrafx]

Philip,

It was simply the stark contrast between what the group sounded like in the studio [non-processed] as to what the group sounded like "after the fact" [processed]!

I know this is a late reply, but the stark contrast had nothing (ZERO) to do with processed or not processed. It was primarily the difference between a random room mic, potentially just the mic built into the camera from across the room (only intended to capture reference audio) and the actual recording mics which are directly in front of the singers separated by sound walls (see 5:22).

What you hear at 5:33 is not a mix from the vocal mics. What you hear at 5:45 is a mix from the vocal mics.