OT: Piezo Pickups

[mr_es335]

John,

Thanks for your considerations...appreciated!

It is just that I really do not want to drill holes in either guitar at the moment!! Thus, the "...non-invasive and rather unobtrusive pickup system for both guitars..."

The kna works reasonable well with the nylon-strung...but absolutely horrible with the steel-strung!

And with the PZ-DI costing $330.00CND...that is NOT going to happen anytime soon!

Anyhow...thanks for the input...I only wish the output was as favourable!! [Hee...Hee!]

[cgrafx]

There are other less expensive Di alternatives

$99 - https://www.sweetwater.com/c957--Ess...ight=StageBug4
$89 - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...trument-preamp

[mr_es335]

Philip,

Thanks for this... I will check into these...very much appreciated!

PS: I will consider this situation "closed"!

[John F]

The answer Dell, (at least in my opinion) is the Tone Dexter pedal by Audio Sprockets. It's not cheap at around $600, but it is THE ANSWER to getting decent sound out of your piezo pickups. (I found one on eBay for a few hundred bucks) To use it, you plug in your guitar from its pickup into one input on the Tone Dexter, and a microphone you've set up into the other input. You then play for a couple of minutes, and it figures out the difference between your microphone sound and your pickup sound, and creates what they call a "wavemap" for that particular combination. You can save (at least on my early version) up to 22 different combinations of instruments and microphones. End result - you plug your guitar into the Tone Dexter and the tone dexter into your sound system, and get microphonic sound out of your piezo pickup. It truly is magic! Take a look at the Audio Sprockets website for more details. (I'm not affiliated with the company, but I probably should be. I'm amazed)

John Francis
Rolla, MO

[mr_es335]

John,

Firstly, thanks for the suggestion of the Tone Dexter pedal - which I did look into...and which is indeed very interesting!

Secondly, some time ago I wrote a fairly extensive, thirty-two page document outlining what I refer to as "a simplistic approach" to live performance, and which consists of seven criteria, namely:

1) To be as portable as is possible.
2) To be as easy to setup [Load-in] and to take-down [Load-out] as is possible.
3) To be entirely Windows-based.
4) To be able to perform an entire evening's solo performance all with no - or at least, minimal intervention on the part of the performer.
5) To prohibit the use of any type of pedal-board or other such "external" guitar-related gear.
6) To allow for connections for up to four devices consisting of three guitars and one microphone.
7) To be able to accommodate a maximum floor area of thirty-five-four square feet - or five feet by seven feet.

As can be observed in the above, the most significant criteria for or purposes here is criteria #5, "To prohibit the use of any type of pedal-board or other such 'external" guitar-related gear"...thus negating the employment of the Tone Dexter pedal.

However, all is not lost. After perusing over 50 systems - including the highly touted "Barbera Transducers", I decided to revisit the 2Mix...in response to your previous query.

For a time I was the Canadian distributor of the 2Mic - simply meaning that I had "stock" of a number of the various systems and prototypes available to me. To keep a long-story-short, I took one of the existing Model 8 prototypes and revamped that unit to meet my current needs. And low-and-behold, I was "gobsmacked"!
* As present, I am not at liberty to say more as discussions with Ken Donnell are still in their infancy. When I am able to say more, I will then do so.

Anyhow John, thanks again for the "tip" - which was greatly appreciated!!

PS: One other little tid-bit, the Model 8 is low impedance...so no Di is required. A real bonus!!

[John Ludlow]

The answer Dell, (at least in my opinion) is the Tone Dexter pedal by Audio Sprockets. It's not cheap at around $600, but it is THE ANSWER to getting decent sound out of your piezo pickups. (I found one on eBay for a few hundred bucks) To use it, you plug in your guitar from its pickup into one input on the Tone Dexter, and a microphone you've set up into the other input. You then play for a couple of minutes, and it figures out the difference between your microphone sound and your pickup sound, and creates what they call a "wavemap" for that particular combination. You can save (at least on my early version) up to 22 different combinations of instruments and microphones. End result - you plug your guitar into the Tone Dexter and the tone dexter into your sound system, and get microphonic sound out of your piezo pickup. It truly is magic! Take a look at the Audio Sprockets website for more details. (I'm not affiliated with the company, but I probably should be. I'm amazed)

John Francis
Rolla, MO

OOOoooohhhhh.... :-O I want one of those.

It seems like it's doing much the same thing that Sonarworks product does for helping bring a room to flat - and I'm a big fan of that.

This has been a very informative set of posts for me. I've learned a lot about what I didn't know about piezo options. I've just been living-with/EQ-ing the result of in-guitar amplification solutions since the eighties. They're so convenient, and mics on stands are often troublesome - particularly in crowded spaces.

[Dave Labrecque]

I have to wonder if something similar could be achieved with simple EQ curve matching as can be done with Voxengo's CurveEQ and others. Of course, that means having the matching curve online with SAW in Live Mode or something similar. Not ideal for live performance. Although if you're using SAC, you should be fine.

Hmmm... SAW's showing 4096 samples of latency for CurveEQ (32-bit version jBridged to 64-bit). Hopefully, there's a latency-free EQ-curve-matching VST utility out there. Or maybe CurveEQ without the bridge? I believe there's a 64-bit version out there these days.

[mr_es335]

John and John,

So, I have spent the last hour or so, listing to whatever demos there are out there with regards to the Tone Dexter pedal, and though what I am hearing is interesting, none were at the level of what I was personally expecting!

However, have a peep at these demos, Demo 1, Demo 2 and Demo 3
* All of these demos are by Martin Tallstrom...an excellent "tonal" guitarist!!
* The first tow guitars are inexpensive and no EQ was employed!
* The third guitar I do believe is a Lowden!

As noted previously, the "mods" that I have recently developed - at least to my ears, have only improved on the quality of the output!
* I may provide some sample recordings of this configuration...but am always very much concerned about "leakage"!

[Dave Labrecque]

Dell, Demo 1 sounds great! Demo 2, not linked, it seems, FYI.

[John Ludlow]

I think those 2mics sound great, Dell. Although, maybe just a tad 'breathy'. Before I understood, I had presumed that there was reverb on all of the performances before I came to realize that it was only on part of the third.

The thing I like about at least the potential of the Tone Dexter, is that the mic you train it with, and its location relative to the instrument, become part and parcel of the sound. So, if you find fault with the result, you can change mics, or move the mic, or change the room, before you re-train it and get a different result. But once you get the sound you desire, it's locked in and you have it. And, in theory, you can get a result that closely matches the sound of a mic that you would never think of taking to a gig - without it actually being there.

I suppose you are limited to the dynamics of a piezo though. It will never track sudden changes in dynamics the way, for instance, a ribbon mic would. A piezo is sluggish by comparison. So, although the Tone Dexter capture of a ribbon mic may have its frequency characteristics, it should still react at the speed of the piezo.

I guess one caveat here is that I'm listening to all of this via the TV speaker through which I experience my Internet these days. It's not a good environment for sonic decision-making.