Spectral Layers 10 Pro Blowing My Mind

[UpTilDawn]

I don't think it has as much to do with multiple passes as it does with making new layers that contain the bits you want to keep from the initial separation. Then blending those layers into comp'd versions to eventually mix back together.
There's an example of one way to do that process in one of those videos (I'm not at a pc that I can do much with at the moment....).

One thing I realized is that it's necessary to highlight/make active the unmixed track that you want to further edit and extract bits from, as opposed to just leaving the main track active. Then it's necessary to drag the bit track(s) underneath the track you want to blend it with... things that are not readily apparent to me, anyway. Difficult for me to describe when I'm not at the machine and with as little experience as I have with the program so far.

[Todd R]

I don't think it has as much to do with multiple passes as it does with making new layers that contain the bits you want to keep from the initial separation. Then blending those layers into comp'd versions to eventually mix back together.
There's an example of one way to do that process in one of those videos (I'm not at a pc that I can do much with at the moment....).

One thing I realized is that it's necessary to highlight/make active the unmixed track that you want to further edit and extract bits from, as opposed to just leaving the main track active. Then it's necessary to drag the bit track(s) underneath the track you want to blend it with... things that are not readily apparent to me, anyway. Difficult for me to describe when I'm not at the machine and with as little experience as I have with the program so far.

I hear ya
yeah, it took me a several attempts to get kind of a workflow
I separated noise from voices;
then separated voices a few times until I was able to make a comp of the unwanted voices
then using colors it is possible to use the color contrast as an overlay and edit the main source...from the guide

it does work...I took photos I could share here...

as far as multiple passes, read the comment in that video...the multiple passes wasn't my idea...I was trying what the one guy said and didn't experience much joy doing so :-)

[UpTilDawn]

...
as far as multiple passes, read the comment in that video...the multiple passes wasn't my idea...I was trying what the one guy said and didn't experience much joy doing so :-)

Oh, yeah... Gotcha... I don't get how multiple passes would achieve anything.
I haven't tried it though either. It's taken multiple experiments and views of various videos to get even a basic strategy together on the tracks I've needed to process so far. Mine are mostly music and hardly anything approaching the consistency of the typical popular song mix. So I've been straining the grey matter to modify the instruction I've gotten so far in ways that work for my needs. Success has been coming...... slowly.

But what sold me on it was the very first effort, where I was able to recover an almost inaudible bass part on an old 80's LP that had been mixed badly... The bass player had been disgusted by the album all these years and I was able to pull off a decent remix of the album for him to be proud of, finally. (This was actually the only "typical" music I've done this with so far).

[Todd R]

Oh, yeah... Gotcha... I don't get how multiple passes would achieve anything.
I haven't tried it though either. It's taken multiple experiments and views of various videos to get even a basic strategy together on the tracks I've needed to process so far. Mine are mostly music and hardly anything approaching the consistency of the typical popular song mix. So I've been straining the grey matter to modify the instruction I've gotten so far in ways that work for my needs. Success has been coming...... slowly.

But what sold me on it was the very first effort, where I was able to recover an almost inaudible bass part on an old 80's LP that had been mixed badly... The bass player had been disgusted by the album all these years and I was able to pull off a decent remix of the album for him to be proud of, finally. (This was actually the only "typical" music I've done this with so far).

that's great! forensic work can certainly re-write the book at times :-)

In case you didn't dive into it, the comment in that video this fellow says:
"It's tedious and not-as-intended, but in a SL centered workflow I would recommend hitting Unmix as many times as possible until the sources it produces no longer yield useful information. There is only so much you can do in a manual workflow. Visual tools can not discriminate complex timbres and choral harmonies well. Machine learning can digitally filter sounds almost as we do mentally, far superior to what most manual tools can do"

and further:
"After close to 20 rounds of unmixing and tweaking, I can turn most audio I bring into SL into perfect stems with the notable exception of music containing multiple different instruments (saxophone, synth, birdsong) not in the standard selection of sources (guitar, piano, drums, bass, vocal)..."

[UpTilDawn]

that's great! forensic work can certainly re-write the book at times :-)

In case you didn't dive into it, the comment in that video this fellow says:
"It's tedious and not-as-intended, but in a SL centered workflow I would recommend hitting Unmix as many times as possible until the sources it produces no longer yield useful information. There is only so much you can do in a manual workflow. Visual tools can not discriminate complex timbres and choral harmonies well. Machine learning can digitally filter sounds almost as we do mentally, far superior to what most manual tools can do"

and further:
"After close to 20 rounds of unmixing and tweaking, I can turn most audio I bring into SL into perfect stems with the notable exception of music containing multiple different instruments (saxophone, synth, birdsong) not in the standard selection of sources (guitar, piano, drums, bass, vocal)..."

There's certainly a lot to absorb here - when the text is actually visible, that is.

I'm sure to find the perfect scenario for trying those methods sooner, rather than later. The trick will be finding the time to experiment to that degree. We'll see how it goes.

[Todd R]

There's certainly a lot to absorb here - when the text is actually visible, that is.

I'm sure to find the perfect scenario for trying those methods sooner, rather than later. The trick will be finding the time to experiment to that degree. We'll see how it goes.

whoops! I'll fix it

[Todd R]

OK, let me clarify
I use SS64 as my main DAW and am using Spectral Layers as a wave editor; to then mix the processed audio in SS64 for my films and music.
I will certainly do the same with other sources than the films.

I just thought I'd share with this community in the event it might help someone else or have a discussion with other SAW users who might be doing the same.
My goodness, we talk about all kinds of things on this forum. Using another software, like a sound wave editor for work in SAW is par for the course afaiaa.

Well, I've been warned via PM that this thread possibly breaks RML Labs forum rules.
I find that shocking, but maybe I'm well and truly out of line?
In my view, if we can't talk in public, then something's not quite right.
So let's cover the viability with using a separate software to process audio for eventual use within SAW as a topic in public, no?
The things that can be gotten away with in PM can be easily break forum rules if we don't stick to the right reasons to use it, for instance sharing personal details like phone numbers or issuing warnings from mods.

I mean we talk about VSTs and VST wrappers and other software here, because this is the SAW community and investigating limitations and workflows is as important as using SAW.
I need to get back work anyway.
Peace, y'all

[UpTilDawn]

I also use Spectra and RX to process tracks for use in SAW on a regular basis. I find it extremely helpful to be able to have conversations about these tools with those people who use them in the SAW community. This would be nearly impossible to get from any other forum on the web today and I am truly grateful that this SAW forum exists and those who participate are so graciously giving with their thoughts and experiences - especially where third party software and its compatibility with SAW/SAC is concerned... whether used as an internally applied fx/tool, or as standalone assistant for processing/prepping tracks in SAW.

The help and insight is indispensable. I would feel like I was operating alone on an island without it sometimes.

[Todd R]

I also use Spectra and RX to process tracks for use in SAW on a regular basis. I find it extremely helpful to be able to have conversations about these tools with those people who use them in the SAW community. This would be nearly impossible to get from any other forum on the web today and I am truly grateful that this SAW forum exists and those who participate are so graciously giving with their thoughts and experiences - especially where third party software and its compatibility with SAW/SAC is concerned... whether used as an internally applied fx/tool, or as standalone assistant for processing/prepping tracks in SAW.

The help and insight is indispensable. I would feel like I was operating alone on an island without it sometimes.

Right on! I agree...in other forums, folks get funny about their DAW verse SS.

So, I found a workflow that is really effective at removing unwanted voices in a location mic.

On the original, unmixed copy of the audio in SL
I'm using the Selection Brush to select audio and remove the unwanted voices completely.
This takes multiple selections across all the harmonics and multiple deletes;
I change the brush size to smaller on the higher freqs...around 35px brush size on low freqs

then use the clone tool to fill in the deleted sections.
Clone tool takes some practice and the online vid explaining it was not helpful.
Obviously it depends upon the source material. In my case we are outside on location and there is plenty of "ambiance" to clone from.

That's for the shotgun.

The lav is a bit more of a challenge...filling in RF drop out on wireless has me stumped right now
and it's not as important as the shotgun mic stuff in this scene for me

anyway, just thought I'd share :-)

[UpTilDawn]

...
On the original, unmixed copy of the audio in SL
I'm using the Selection Brush to select audio and remove the unwanted voices completely.
This takes multiple selections across all the harmonics and multiple deletes;
I change the brush size to smaller on the higher freqs...around 35px brush size on low freqs

then use the clone tool to fill in the deleted sections.
Clone tool takes some practice and the online vid explaining it was not helpful.
Obviously it depends upon the source material. In my case we are outside on location and there is plenty of "ambiance" to clone from... :-)

Sounds an awful lot like what I've learned (and now forgotten) about editing images in photshop-like tools.
I especially was starting to dig into cloning to fill in gaps left by removing unwanted bits.