About VST3 ?

[Göran Nordberg]

Hello Folks!

What is the advantage of VST3?
If there are two versions of the same plugin, VST 2 and VST3, is the VST3 version better?
Just curious and wondering, is it less CPU or better sound, better stability?

[cgrafx]

Hello Folks!

What is the advantage of VST3?
If there are two versions of the same plugin, VST 2 and VST3, is the VST3 version better?
Just curious and wondering, is it less CPU or better sound, better stability?

VST3 is the newer and more advanced version, offering improved performance, enhanced MIDI capabilities, sidechain support, sample-accurate automation, and an improved GUI. While VST3 is the future of the VST standard, compatibility with older systems and plugins may still require the use of VST

meaning moving forward eventually most new plug-in development will likely be VST3 only

[Göran Nordberg]

VST3 is the newer and more advanced version, offering improved performance, enhanced MIDI capabilities, sidechain support, sample-accurate automation, and an improved GUI. While VST3 is the future of the VST standard, compatibility with older systems and plugins may still require the use of VST

meaning moving forward eventually most new plug-in development will likely be VST3 only

Thank You, that information sounds good to me

[mr_es335]

Good day,
I hope that this day finds you all very well!

To begin with, I do hope that my following comments and questions tend not "...to generate more heat than light"!

I am very, very glad that I have the VST2 plug-ins that I do have! These plug-ins have met my everyday and ever-increasing needs and requirements.
And I expect such to do the same for years to come.

I mean, what more does one require than SAC and SAW [with MWS at times, along with the Kontakt 6.2 plugiin], the Fabfilter Pro-Q 3 and Pro-R 2 plugiins, and the Guitar Rig 5 plugiin? That should be enough to keep someone very busy for years...if indeed, not a lifetime!

In the end, let me ask to very, very important and hopefully relevant questions.
* As I only employ such equipment in a "live" performance environment, I only tend to focus my attention on such endeavors - and thus, my questions will be focused on such.

Q1: Will a "live" audience be able to really-and-truly "hear" the difference?
Q2) Do the folks in "live" performance really-and-truly care about what equipment it is that I am employing at any particular time?
Q3) Does a simple audience really-and-truly care how a performance is actually "delivered" to them?
Q4) Can "equipment" make up for talent?

I sincerely believe that these questions are both important and relevant and should require their due time and attention.

PS: As a point-of-interest, being a rank neophyte, I tend to refer to my "live performance efforts" as being "pre-production efforts" - rather than "post-production efforts" - as I never plan to record such events. Thus, a considerable amount of time is in developing those "sounds" that closely replicate the overall tonal qualities of 1) the acoustic instruments that I am deploying , 2) my electric guitar performance and, 2) my "Emcee" voice. And as a rank neophyte, I do what I am able with the gifts given "to do what I am able", and then to hire someone whom I trust to "tweak" such efforts or re-do such as required [...hopefully the former]. In the end, it is absolutely imperative that I do not ever, ever employ hardware and software that masks my "playing skills" in any way whatsoever. Doing so, at least to me, would be a dishonest employment of such given gifts.
I do hope that this all makes sense? I look forward to your responses.

Thank y'all for your time...appreciated!

[Göran Nordberg]

For me personally, I'm looking forward to the sidechain finesse in VST3.
At the moment, SAW is not supposed to sidechain from live signal, that's my understanding.
With SAW and SAC together I can do it.
SAC sidechaining live signals from SAW.

[John Ludlow]

Q1: Will a "live" audience be able to really-and-truly "hear" the difference?
Q2) Do the folks in "live" performance really-and-truly care about what equipment it is that I am employing at any particular time?
Q3) Does a simple audience really-and-truly care how a performance is actually "delivered" to them?
Q4) Can "equipment" make up for talent?

Dell, I'm reaching back quite awhile here. And, as a single performer, your audiences may be more sophisticated than mine were. Plus, we were playing loud music in bars, and you aren't. But when I was playing, our audiences were coming to drink booze and feel enthused to dance. In that order. They had no idea what it was about our music pleased them besides having favorites among the songs we played, and liking the soloist. But if it did - that was enough and they would come back - so long as the booze didn't run out. Nobody but a musician or a sound tech is going to choose their night out by the version of VST employed - probably not even them. Most audiences know what they like - not why they like it.

No matter how excellent the sound is when it leaves your amplification equipment, it is instantly drastically modified by the room unless you're playing in rooms that were specifically built for live music. The average bar ruins every effort at being fussy about what gets to their ears. And, depending upon where they sit, audience members listening in disparate places within the room hear completely different results. Even just a few feet can make a big difference. It's just the way the live music business is. You can 'fix' the worst room problems, but you can't make it sound like a music studio.

That said, I can't say for sure, but I think a lot of what people like about live performance is based upon how the performer feels about it. There are subtle cues when the performer feels good about what they are putting out. If they can't hear themselves, or the action on their guitar is a little high, or what they hear displeases them for any reason - that may affect their performance in ways that the audience feels - whether they consciously hear it or not. So, I think it's important for the performers to feel good about their performance. To be working in a little bubble of sonic excellence that they can presume (albeit wrongly...) is what their audience hears too. If you are pleased with what you hear, you will probably perform well - that's good enough. If you and your audience like it: why change anything? It's not fashion.

But if you're not, then arranging some way for it to is worth re-considering the minutiae in your gear. And, until you do, your audience probably won't like it either.

[Dave Labrecque]

For me personally, I'm looking forward to the sidechain finesse in VST3.
At the moment, SAW is not supposed to sidechain from live signal, that's my understanding.
With SAW and SAC together I can do it.
SAC sidechaining live signals from SAW.

There is actually already some sidechain action available natively in SAWStudio. Check out the key input settings for the channel-strip dynamics section as well as the Levelizer.

And you could try Metaplugin for VST3 support, including sidechaining.

[Pedro V]

I think there are more new features in relation to VST3 than those mentioned.

Regarding the famous Fabfilter that many people use (it's like toilet paper) no offense: It's incredible the amount of people I see on the internet with the same plugin.

Recently a friend came and had the same Fabfilter EQ in his DAW StudioOne, with some frequency cuts in his voice that were Noth filters: Fine and deep. He had started to check with the frequency listening option what was "annoying", what ended up bothering was his voice.

Then we flattened everything, some soft filters and that was it. I helped him a lot.

That EQ seems visually very festive, made up and bizarre to me. I also think it works as a multiband compressor, which can confuse when making decisions channel by channel.

That tool for a neophyte who wants to develop may not be the best. I would use the ones from SAC.

The graphs help but people are stopping using their ears well perhaps. There is something special that happens when you don't need to see a graph to know where the problem is and go to the EQ. That is appreciated and noticed by the public Dell, your development as a sound technician is noticeable.


I am not an expert but there was once a band that was always mixed by other people, one night it was my turn, with a Midas 32. I left it on the stage and I stood in front with a computer on a table to control it remotely. I don't like all those buttons and faders moving.

Well, people started to come to me asking for the contact number of the orchestra. Interested people, something that had never happened before, but it sounded good, you wanted to, it made you want to dance thanks to a decent mix.

At home, I only use SAW stuff and a PSP saturator plugin. I have stopped using the Frequency Analyzer. My results have improved.

Check out this post where a FabFilter vs Levelizer and Lv1 measurement appears
by Anwida :

http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/...till-brilliant

I can't stand it, I'm not going to put that thing in my SAWStudio64 when I buy it, you have to be consistent man. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

A link has been lost, romanticism is left behind, we have to try to make quality and philosophy mesh between things.

I haven't used Reverb but I don't respect these things at first sight.

Regarding Kontakt I don't like it either, I prefer Roland (Pioneer) running on Windows 7 with its latest versions VST2 and 3. Also the Toontrack stuff.

That's my opinion.

Greetings.

[Göran Nordberg]

There is actually already some sidechain action available natively in SAWStudio. Check out the key input settings for the channel-strip dynamics section as well as the Levelizer.

And you could try Metaplugin for VST3 support, including sidechaining.

Well...I am aware of the sidechain/KEY input in the SAW mixer, but the channel compressor can not handle a live signal as KEY input.
I work mostly with MIDI in MWS and audio from external midigear as live input in SAW.
With SAW and SAC together it is OK, routing the audio input to SAC and then using the channel compressor in SAC that is working very nice with live signals.
It would be nice to use some sidechain VST3 in SAW if they can handle a live signal, I don't know, maybe it works maybe not.

[mr_es335]

John,

You touched upon some really good points here! Thanks for this, John!
* P# = your point, C# = my comment

P1: "That said, I can't say for sure, but I think a lot of what people like about live performance is based upon how the performer feels about it."
C1: As a classical guitarist, all that I had to rely on were my hands [...along with my mind, will and emotions], and the guitar. How the performer feels about the performance is indeed, very important...if not crucial.
* What I am desirous of achieving is to recreate...as-much-as-it-is-possible, an amplified guitar sound that replicates the sound of the guitar in a "noisier" environment.

P2: "And, as a single performer, your audiences may be more sophisticated than mine were. Plus, we were playing loud music in bars, and you aren't."
C2: This not totally the situation. I am performing in small coffee shops/restaurants and the like, so there is a combination of quiet times and more talkative times.
* Regarding the audiences - these are folks you would find in a coffee shop or a small restaurant.

P3: "Most audiences know what they like - not why they like it."
C3: A great point!

P4: "No matter how excellent the sound is when it leaves your amplification equipment, it is instantly drastically modified by the room unless you're playing in rooms that were specifically built for live music."
C4: Lounges and coffee shops...some of the latter with very high ceilings. As I am not dealing with high output levels, this scenario may have an overall effect on my output quality. For audience responses, I always hear that such are very pleased with my performances - to which my response is, "Please, do not thank me...Thank Bob!"

P5: "There are subtle cues...If they can't hear themselves...or what they hear displeases them for any reason - that may affect their performance in ways that the audience feels - whether they consciously hear it or not."
C5: I have never been able to put this "subtly" into words...so for this tid-bit....I am truly grateful. From my perspective, this "cue" is "...the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back!" The guitar ***8211; especially a nylon-strung guitar, is a very personal instrument. Regardless of how the instrument "plays", if what I am hearing is not what I expect to here, then the entire evening's performance is "lost".

When it comes to SAC and SAW, I am always very, very pleased that I can always "reply" on such. This dependable-ness equates to alleviating some of the pressures that seem to plague solo live performances.

Thank you for your reply, John...such is very much appreciated!