New PC help

[Scott P]

I'm using an antique 500Mhz machine and am finally getting an opportunity to trade up.

With machines having improved over the years, is there really a need for me to purchase a fine tuned PC for SAW? I know there are advantages, but does it make a huge difference?

I'm thinking of just getting an off the shelf Dell machine. What are opinions?

Also, if you all think it's neccesary, who is a good source for a turn key machine? Tim Kirk built my last one and it's worked great, but I can't seem to get in touch with him.

I don't have the time or inclination to build one myself.

Thanks all,
Scott

[AudioAstronomer]

The advantage is mostly in getting more bang for your buck for a "saw pc".

A dell will work great, but a lot more work to get going in tip-top shape.

There's numerous system builders here (mostly VIP affiliates), I know for a fact many of them (including myself) do a fantastic job. I beleive Bob L may still do turnkey systems as well.

Like anything, the extra time you spend shopping around can save you a lot of time hassling later.

[Ian Alexander]

My previous DAW came from Tim Kirk, too. It was good to have one real person to call when I had trouble or questions. When that machine (667MHz) was ready to retire, I couldn't find Tim, either, so I priced some other DAW builders. I decided to try a stock machine. I am now happily SAWing on a Dell, but NOT a Dimension. It's a Workstation 360. Popped in my LynxONE and it works fine. I did Bob's XP tweaks and get pretty good drive numbers. I produce mostly radio spots, so I'm not doing 50 tracks with oodles of plugs, but I've never had a hiccup.

The Dell has audio on the MB, but it doesn't interfere. In fact, I took the line out from the on-board audio, ran a cable to the line in on my office machine and I get the windows sounds from the PC speakers on the other machine. I can even choose the on-board audio from SS's menu and hear what my mixes sound like on REALLY crummy speakers. Helpful, since lots of FM listening still happens on clock radios.

So, now you've got two different answers. Let us know what you do and how it goes.

[Perry]

I agree with what Robert and Ian have said here already and I'd just add that I'd be cautious about getting a Dell for a Daw. Dell often uses it's own "special" designs with hardware and software and this in some cases can cause problems for a Daw user (or any user for that matter). Examples of this are parts, like the power supply in some instances, that can't be upgraded except from Dell as they aren't a standard size. Ian seems to have come out well, but I've seen at least one guy locally here singing the blues over getting a Dell for a Daw and and at least one other having difficulty upgrading due to non-standard parts that Dell used.

The Dell could work if you're careful about what you get, but you might be better off getting a computer from a "mom and pop" type shop so that you can specify exactly what you need... or as Robert suggested, have someone that understands Daws build one for you.

Don't however simply go to a local shop and say you need a computer "for sound". They won't know what you really need and you'll most likely end up with an underpowered rig with on-board video and a soundblaster installed.

I built a new rig for a guy here a while back that had done just that.

Best of luck,

Perry

[Mark Stebbeds]

I

I'm thinking of just getting an off the shelf Dell machine. What are opinions?

<snip>

I don't have the time or inclination to build one myself.

I disagree with what others have said here about needing a custom built machine to run a DAW, unless your needs are very demanding. Current technology has created a market where off the shelf computers such as certain model DELL surpass the specs and performance of recent custom built machines that are still in use by "power users", mine included. The custom DAW builder I have used for years has suggested the same.

Every computer I have ever owned I have used the onboard sound card for system sounds, internet brownsing, etc., without any problem.

I certainly would recommend having a seperate hard drive for audio use that meets minimum standards, and a backup system.

This is not to say you shouldn't be careful and buy a box that could be unsuitable. Perhaps Bob could list some minimum specs required when shopping for an off the shelf box, to avoid any obvious problems.

mark

[AudioAstronomer]

As a note, to ammend my previous statement, Sony viao's are much more apt for daw usage than any of dell's offerings. Not to say dell wont work (ive seen many dells used very well), but digidesign and steinberg both give top recommendations for sony. I love their computers myself, though I dont own one.

[Mitch]

Not that I'm bragging about it, but I use 2 Dells. An XPS Gen 2 tower system and an Inspiron 9300 laptop, both maxed out on ram at 2gb. I use external LaCie FW800 drives for audio and sound library and backups.

Both perform extremely well with SAW and the RME Fireface 800 and Multiface (RME gives Dell systems a very high ranking BTW)

Running ASIO drivers, I can get stable, glitch free, 30 track mixes at 2/64 and even as low as 2/48 (dont run in that mode,just sayin)

Both Dells have had Bob's tweaks applied.

The tower is noisy ! Laptop is silent.

So far, so good on both machines and SAW (knock on wood)

[Sam C]

I might misunderstand but I thought one of the benefits of SAW was not needing a custom built computer?

I use a Sony Vaio laptop and tower and the machines work great.

[Bruce Callaway]

From my point of view there are reasons to build or specify your DAW mainly from a point of view of minimising issues.

- Many sounds cards may not work with the chipset on the motherboard. I found this with Layla24 cards. The chipset in an ASUS board would not work. Everything else worked great. The only answer was to get another motherboard with the right chipset.

- Ensuring that you have a fast machine for storage eg, a 10k RPM hard drive for recording & mixing.

- Upgradability Many manufacturers use once off configurations for their PCs. This can mean getting parts or upgrading can be difficult. HP were known for this. For example, HP PCs have custom drivers to make all the components work and they are a hassle to work with if you want to change something.

- Bang for your buck. I believe you will save dollars by building your own DAW. A simple way is to spec up a Dell/IBM etc to meet your ideal DAW requirements ie, high powered CPU, large HDDs, SATA, SCSI etc. Cost this against building the same DAW yourself or having a PC shop do it.

Off the shelf DAWS are pretty good on the surface however I want to ensure I know exactly what I am getting to maximise performance. By the way, I just built my own DAW PC so that is my preference.

[Perry]

Not to overly argue the point.. I hope ...but to add to info about the "Dell" issue... I don't mean to imply that a Dell couldn't work (I believe that I said that?) but do realize that even if it does, there *might* be issues later on if you want to upgrade that same Dell computer.. like for instance putting in a more powerful power supply and finding out that standard off the shelf parts won't fit. I've personally seen this happen.

So all I'm saying is that if you get a Dell (or whatever), my suggestion is to first find out exactly what it is you are actually getting in terms of parts and understand that you might not be getting "standard" parts and/or software. Even if you buy a model that other's have used successfully make sure the parts list hasn't changed more recently.

The good news of course is that yes, today's computers are basically *all* very powerful, and I have known people that have simply gone to a computer shop and bought whatever fit their budget and it worked fine for them... but the reverse can happen too and I've personally seen that as well.

There are a *lot* of variables and the "variables" are constantly changing with motherboard revisions, chipsets, PCI Express, and so on. There are definitely new computers out there that can give you a lot of grief as a Daw... and of course other's that would work great. You could of course roll the dice and hope for the best. Odds are pretty good, but not 100%.

My recommendation is still to either have someone build you a proper rig that you can be fairly certain will work for you as a Daw, or research as much as it takes to get a list of parts that are known to work with the software and hardware (soundcard, etc) that you plan to use and then build as close as possible that same computer.

ADK Pro Audio is a popular turnkey DAW building site by the way. Even if you don't buy from them you can get some ideas about system configurations by browsing their site. http://www.adkproaudio.com/

Best of luck,

Perry