OT: Amping bass in church

[Jay Q]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice. I'm gonna be playing a gig (electric bass) at a church with high ceilings and a large band. The hall is roughly square (maybe slightly longer than wide) and seats about 1000. Ceiling is about 30' high and slopes upward to a point. The seating is just rows of pews. The stage is slightly elevated (a couple of steps up).

My question has to do with the positioning of my amp. I've played in this hall before, and as you can imagine, it's not real conducive to pop/jazz music. I typically set my amp on a chair next to me (I play seated) so I can hear it well without having to crank it. This gig is going to have drums, bass, piano, guitar, sax, trumpet, a string quartet, and a 50-person choir. Though there will be a small amount of bass in the house, a fair amount of the sound will come from my amp. So, I'm wondering if I should do my usual setup which has the amp facing directly toward the audience or if I should tilt it back at an angle (say, 35 degrees) so it's pointing somewhat toward the ceiling.

I completely realize the devil is in the details, so I'm just wondering if there's some fundamental idea about bass freqs in an reverby church such that the angle of the amp could help the bass be heard while cutting down on mud.

TIA,
Jay

[AcousticGlue]

The higher off the floor the less botton end. Lows are not the bread and butter though. I would put on stand and tilt slightly maybe front end about 6-7 inches from floor.

[Mark Stebbeds]

I'm gonna be playing a gig (electric bass) at a church
<snip>
I completely realize the devil is in the details

Hey, what kind of church is this?

Mark

[Bruce Callaway]

For a venue this big, I would have expected most bass to come from the FOH. However this is a church who are not at the leading edge of sound reinforcement. I have played in churches for many years in large halls therefore am used to playing through underpowered PAs (on guitar). Will you be using a DI as well and how powerful is your bass amp and what speakers does it have? It sounds like a combo amp that may not be enough on its own (if that is the case).

[Jay Q]

Hey, what kind of church is this?

Perhaps you're familiar with The Church Of Saint Beelzebub.

Jay

[Jay Q]

For a venue this big, I would have expected most bass to come from the FOH.

Yeah, me too. The sound guy there is good, but I think he kinda overcompensates (or undercompensates) in this area.

Will you be using a DI as well and how powerful is your bass amp and what speakers does it have?

Yes, it'll be DIed (that looks funny). I usually use a combo amp which actually puts out a lot of sound and is plenty adequate for this gig, however just to have lots of headroom, I'm bringing my larger rig which is a GK 400RB and a custom-built cabinet -- it'll be more than enough sound. Just to reiterate, I'm mainly wondering if the angle of the amp makes a difference.

AcousticGlue, could you re-explain your suggestion? I'm having trouble picturing it.

Jay

[Bruce Callaway]

Sounds fine to me. I am not sure about the angle of the amp either. I have not done this before for front of house. From my experience in churches, angled amps on stage were to allow the FOH to have more control by keeping the backline volume as low as possible. The other benefit is that you aim the amp at yourself so you can hear what you are doing with some oomph, always a problem in that type of setup. One church sound guy I worked with used to always call my guitar amp my "foldback", a constant source of annoyance to me The concept of it being the primary source of my sound was absolutely foreign.

[Jay Q]

Thanks Bruce. I'll be able to hear myself just fine since I sit down right next to my amp (the top of the amp is at ear level).

So, I guess I'm still not sure about whether the angle makes a difference in the house. Since I expect the audience will be hearing more from my amp than from house, I'm just looking for any way to minimize mud without having to drastically alter my amp's tone. I don't know whether angle would matter, but I figured it's worth asking.

Jay

[Naturally Digital]

Jay,

Depending whether your amp/speaker has a tweeter or not, it is important to understand how the speaker works. Assuming it's a single driver 12" or 15", the very low frequencies (<100-200Hz) are pretty much omnidirectional. Above that, the speaker becomes directional in a big hurry. It's really these midrange frequencies that 'make you heard'. IOW, your sound will go where you point your amp. If you want a person in the front row to hear your playing, in all it's glorious detail (fret noise, buzzing etc) then point the speaker directly at their head. The 15" speaker will beam straight at them but unfortunately, you may not be heard very well on stage.

I usually suggest that players set their amps up in such a way (angled or otherwise) that the speaker is pointing directly *at themselves*. Especially if there is a PA at the gig. Sometimes (say w/o a PA) this involves getting the amp up high or putting it on a chair etc. MI speakers are directional and the better players understand this and set up accordingly.

Now in terms of the low frequencies, basically the fundamentals of most of what you play on bass, room acoustics plays a role here. In a large church, there shouldn't be any issues however, the concept is that the room will reinforce the LF energy. IOW, if you want more low-end, place the amp/speaker closer to a corner (any corner... wall/wall, floor/wall etc). If you want a cleaner, tighter sound, pull the amp away from the room boundaries. These effects may not be evident from where you, the player is located but out in the audience it certainly will be.

Hope this helps. Have a great gig!

[Naturally Digital]

Since I expect the audience will be hearing more from my amp than from house, I'm just looking for any way to minimize mud without having to drastically alter my amp's tone.

If this will truly be the case, then you may want to point the amp at the house (based on the info in my previous post). Don't angle it up at the ceiling unless the ceiling is angled such that it'll reflect the sound perfectly at the house (like the Bose concept )