Automation display / lock request

[Dave Labrecque]

It really isn't that hard to do.

All due respect... apparently it is that hard. Many of us are seasoned users and are still unintentionally writing automation data. It seems to me that we use Automation mode in two different ways: to see the data and to change the data, but oftentimes not both at the same time.

I don't feel that quickly toggling in and out of automation mode to see and not change the data would not be the most productive way for me to work. In fairness though, I'll try it out today.

[Bob L]

And do you feel that toggling into the special view mode won't now catch you making just as many mistakes when you go to mark a region and delete, and all of a sudden find yourself deleting automation entries because that's what's visible and you forgot... or finding out that you are in the special mode where you now see automation entries but are actually deleting region entries... the confusion gets nuts in my opinion.

Right now... if you see automation... you know that anything you touch will write it... and if you mark and try to move or delete things on the screen, you will be affecting automation entries and not region data. Simple and consistant.

I'm concerned that we will loose more than we gain if this is altered.

Bob L

[Lance]

Bob;

I end up *having* to toggle in and out of automation mode all the time...but it is not the most comfortable way to work and I still ultimately write unintentional data during mixing. My attention is on the audio and not the mode of the interface.

If I may make a suggestion, the [Wv] button in the MT could have its own set of "views", similar to the Automation filters. Rt.click on the Wv button brings up Waveform, Automation, or WF+Aut.

When Automation view is engaged, the colors for the data are muted or lower intensity. Also, the background stays the same color as we know it now. It's really most important to know *where* it is. Of course the viewable data would follow the Automation filter settings.

When the [Aut] button is hit, the background/waveform changes as it does now and perhaps the intensity of the color goes up, i.e. Cyan for Aux in normal mode and Lt.Cyan for Aux data when Automation engaged. Of course, just changing the background/waveform could be cue enough, but certainly highlighting the automation data would nicely indicate that we are in that mode. In actuality, the [Aut] view could stay exactly the way it is now and when (or if) the automation data is added to the [Wv] view, just use the more muted intensities.

I think that these would be enough visual cues to help us all to not make the editing mistakes you are suggesting would happen. The method also maintains consistency with the UI methodology.

Thanks.

Lance

[mikebuzz]

Just split the Aut button in half , one side is view the other is record if it's not in record your monitoring ( red light etc. )

LAter
Buzz

[Shawn]

If viewing automation while not in automation mode is going to be an unstoppable request, my vote goes for either an option in the MultiTrack Menu right there with the region name on/off/placement options, or maybe accessed by a right click drop down list (Wave, or Wave + Automation), on the Wave button on the top of the MultiTrack, that would just make the automation entries visible without altering the region colors, so that you still know that you're in normal playback/editing mode.


Personally, I'm happy with the current Automation view and functionality.

[Bob L]

The concept of the greyed out automation entries in the normal WV mode is where I am leaning... so it would be a reverse situation from the Automation Mode where the waveform is greyed and the automation entries are in full color, the Wv/Automation view would have the waveform regions in full color with greyed automation entries... again just for visible detection of where they are... if you want to edit them or see the differences in color, you would go into Automation Mode where things operate as they do now.

You also should realize that displaying the sutomation entries is an extreme pulldown on the display, which is why I also recommend leaving the mode off unless you are working on the entries... everytime you scroll or F-Key around with automation entries displayed it is a much higher load on the routines that display the screen... this can affect playback on very dense sessions with lots of automation. It may also affect your ability to keep low latencies without glitching.

But if it is a toggled option, I have no problem with that.

Bob L

[Lance]

Bob;

Thanks for considering it. Having options is great.

Still, I would prefer seeing the differences in automation data in the Wv view so that I know what I'm looking at. Sometimes I have volume, eq or mutes all within the same area.

If it creates too much of a load on the system, it can just be toggled off, no?

Thanks again.

Lance

[razor]

Hi Bob

Thanks for the thought here.

I'm stuck in the middle.
I have done many unintended automation writes, usually solo mute eq stuff
but I must agree simplicity is the key.

If the automation data is screen intensive why not just have a thin bar in the top of the track to represent where automation is but not what it is.

anytime you are in wv this is displayed. No on off's no overhead.

Seeing the automation should not engage the automation mode for the loss of functionality reasons you described earlier.

my 0.02 cents worth FWIW

cheers

[Dave Labrecque]

And do you feel that toggling into the special view mode won't now catch you making just as many mistakes when you go to mark a region and delete, and all of a sudden find yourself deleting automation entries because that's what's visible and you forgot...

Bob,

Maybe we're not understanding each other. If I do as you say and mark a region and delete it in the special automation view mode, the only automation entries I'll be deleting are those in the area of the region that I marked, as that area is deleted. That's what I'd expect, and that's what I'd get. If you mean when I'm in automation mode butTHINK I'm in the special view mode, then what I'm saying is that the aim would be to make it clear that we're in the special view mode so as not to cause confusion -- either by way of coloring or shading or, as others have suggested, with some other obvious indicator.

...or finding out that you are in the special mode where you now see automation entries but are actually deleting region entries... the confusion gets nuts in my opinion.

In this case I assume you mean that I think I'm in automation mode and am trying to delete automation data, but am deleting region entries instead. Again, I'd say make the interface indicate the mode in a clear manner. But also, it's quite obvious when a region disappears unexpectedly like this. A quick undo fixes that. The problem we're having often (or, usually, for me) manifests as written automation that I don't even know about till later, or sometimes, never. Much more confusing than seeing a region entry disappear in front of me.

Right now... if you see automation... you know that anything you touch will write it... and if you mark and try to move or delete things on the screen, you will be affecting automation entries and not region data. Simple and consistant.

Agreed. The problem, I feel, crops up nonetheless for seasoned SAWyers because there's a conflict between what we need and the way the interface operates. Specifically, we need to be able to see automation info at times when we don't want to alter it, but want to tweak controls that do alter it. Usually, for me, it's temporary stuff, like toggling effects on and off or muting channels.

I'm concerned that we will loose more than we gain if this is altered.

Yes, this would be bad. Let's both keep an open mind. So far, I'm seeing more good than bad in the idea. At it's worst it would swap a smaller problem for what we now have, and give us added functionality, IMO. And people who don't like it wouldn't have to use it.

[Dave Labrecque]

Woops. Sounds like you're warming to the idea. Good deal. Guess I shoulda read ahead before that lengthy post back there.

Greyed automation data makes me think we might have trouble distinguishing types. Is muted-color data a viable alternative? I'd hate to only get some of the visual information coming through (location, but not type) after all this debating and wringing of hands (mostly mine).

Thanks for the consideration, Bob!