OT: Mytek v ADA8000 v EchoIndigo

[DominicPerry]

Just to irritate everyone who likes a well controlled test or who enjoys the ceaseless arguments about whether you can tell anything about anything ever, I thought I'd share my latest gear experience. I compared my new Mytek 96ADC to my Echo Indigo and ADA8000.

Here's roughly how it goes. Simultaneous guitar and voice.

Voice > AKG C4000B > Shure FP24 > Echo Indigo > SAW @24/96
Guitar > Oktava MK011 > Shure FP24 > Echo Indigo > SAW @24/96

Voice > AKG C4000B > Shure FP24 > Mytek-spdif-Digiface > SAW @24/96
Guitar > Oktava MK011 > Shure FP24 > Mytek-spdif-Digiface > SAW @24/96

Voice > AKG C4000B > ADA8000 -adat- Digiface > SAW @24/48
Guitar > Oktava MK011 > ADA8000 -adat- Digiface > SAW @24/48

Highest quality buildmix down to 3 individual stereo tracks so that I could solo between them. Played back three ways,
1. Echo indigo out,
2. Digiface headphone socket out (ouch - no volume control),
3. Digiface s/pdif to PreSonus CentralStation DAC,

all three to Sony 7509s and then Genelec 8040s in turn.

I appreciate there are LOTS of problems here. Not great mics, FP24 is a location mic pre not a studio mic pre, sample rate problems, as the ADA8000 doesn't do 96KHz, Genelecs are not great, my listening room isn't great, my ears aren't great etc etc.

Conclusions:

1) I need to practice guitar more - no, I won't be posting the wav files.
2) I can't hear the difference. Not at all. Not even a bit. I'm so surprised I've redone the buildmixes and tried just listening to original tracks and tried upsampling and downsamping. I just can't tell.

Weird eh? I'm sure there must be a difference between a $150 2in/2out Cardbus card and a $900 ADC, but I can't hear it.

That's all folks.

Dominic

[Dingo]

If you can't hear the difference then I'd be happy to trade you my ada8000 for your mytek!

[Craig Allen]

I recently had an ADA8000 modded by Black Lion Audio - they did the clock and the pre-amps. I can hear a difference in single channel stuff, but not what I'd call a tremendous difference. But after tracking 8 channels with it, I can say that the muddy or muffled sound I sometimes get from the ADA8000 is gone. Sometimes one or two track comparisons don't tell you everything. Also, I find the pre-amps make a bigger difference than the converters. I'm not familar with the Shures, but you might try the test with something else and see what you think.

[Microstudio]

Wow... thats very interesting Dominic.

I some times think A/D and D/A's are just a flavor of sound. They all convert but give the sound a flavor... you either like it, hear it or just like the hardware.

I have done much research into the whole Converter, Mic Pre phenomenon and come away with something very simple.

Put all your money into good instruments and learn how to play them and everything will fall into place...

[Dave Labrecque]

Dominic,

You win my respect for telling the truth of your experience, even if it doesn't correspond with your cash outlays or the gear's reputations or...

I did a test once comparing my console's pres to my Millenia HV-3D. Couldn't hear a difference. Then I compared my console's pres/ADC's to the ADA8000's pres/ADC's. Couldn't hear the difference.

Makes you wonder how much all the opinions we hear about these different boxes would change if all the listening was done double-blind style. That placebo effect can be pretty powerful.

[Tim Miskimon]

Wow... thats very interesting Dominic.

I some times think A/D and D/A's are just a flavor of sound. They all convert but give the sound a flavor... you either like it, hear it or just like the hardware.

I think you are correct and as time goes by more & more people will realize this.
The days of the brittle, crappy sounding AD/DA converters are pretty much over.
Even the $100 M-Audio stuff sounds pretty good.
I already use several different converters for different applications and it has added to my sound options.
As long as the clock is good it's pretty much left to the front end amps in the converters - some may argue but I agree with you opinion.
...and Dominic - I think in many cases it's hard to hear those subtile differences between any electronic audio equipment.
After all there are millions of people out there enjoying their favorite music on MP3 players - most people can adjust to any audio medium - after a while the quality is over looked in favor of the music - maybe that's a good thing because most people can't afford the top of the line stuff - and most of them wouldn't hear the difference anyway.

[Dave Labrecque]

I hate it when you guys are so damn pragmatic. It offends my gearlust sensibilities.

[Scott P]

I know I'll probably hear about it, but I'm going to weigh in here a little. I'm using mics along the lines of AKG 414 TL II's. AT 4050's and Earthworks QTC 1's and all in between. My pre's are Earthworks and Langevin and occasionally using the pre's in my Midas Venice for bigger location work.

The only A/D's I've used are RME ADI-8DS, Digiface and the stock ones in the Tascam DA machines. (Still saving for those Prisms)

I'm not trying to be snob, but I can tell you that I can hear the difference. Some differences are bigger than others. These are in direct A-B comparisons. For the record, I like the ADI-8DS's the best. The pre's are interchangable depending on the mics I use.

What I record are live classical and jazz peformances with ambient stereo pairs and spots. The ADI-8DS's and the "better" pre's sound MUCH better than the lesser expensive ones. Primarily, the stereo imaging and depth of field. The lows are tighter and the highs are cleaner. I'll be the first to admit that with mono "close" sources, there's not nearly the difference in sound quality. That's why when I need to spot mic something, I'll use a lesser combo and I don't really think I'm missing much.

All of that to say, FWIW, my personal opinion is that at least some of the more expensive gear sounds considerably better. If it sounds better in stereo pairs, then it likely sounds better on mono sources as well, it's just less perceptible since your not getting the stereo field.

Scott

[DominicPerry]

I'm sure the Mytek is better, I just can't hear it in my setup. The FP24 is quieter at high gain than any pre I've used before and the specs show a wide frequesncy response. Still, it may not be the best test.

Just for interest I also recorded the same into the following high quality chains.

Voice > AKG C4000B > Shure FP24 > Tascam Porta02
Guitar > Oktava MK011 > Shure FP24 > Tascam Porta02

Voice > AKG C4000B > Shure FP24 > Boss MicroBR
Guitar > Oktava MK011 > Shure FP24 > Boss MicroBR


The problem with the Porta02 is the output (line out and phones) are really noisy. If I transfer the tape to a better machine to play back, it sounds quite nice. Great convertors.

The Boss sounded ok too, but in 4-track mode it uses lossy compression. Still plenty of definition, but less bassy than the computer based recording. No hiss, unlike the Porta02, but little artifacts at the start and end of each sound as the compression sets in.

I did buy the Mytek thinking that I 'ought' to. It doesn't make my recodings sound any more 'professional' - commercial stuff played back on my iPod or $300 stereo still sound more defined, clearer, better. It must be better songs, better playing, better rooms, better mics and better engineering. At least I'm satisfied it isn't the convertors.

Dominic

[Scott P]

I did buy the Mytek thinking that I 'ought' to. It doesn't make my recodings sound any more 'professional' - commercial stuff played back on my iPod or $300 stereo still sound more defined, clearer, better. It must be better songs, better playing, better rooms, better mics and better engineering. At least I'm satisfied it isn't the convertors.

Dominic

I took some advice from great friend and engineer I have a lot of respect for. I've found it to be true. It's not just the converters or just the mics or just the pre's or cables, etc. It's all of them together. They each make a little bit of improved difference, but they all combine to make a BIG difference. As you continue to improve the signal chain, you may not notice a difference every time you change something, but you'll notice big changes in the long haul.

And before someone else says it: your experience will make a big difference as well.

Scott