A Little help

[HapHazzard]

Steve is out on the road and has a very serious problem with his SAC rig.
He is in West Fargo right now.
If someone is close to him, see if you can hookup with him and help out.

Take a look at the tour dates and see if your close.

http://www.teslatheband.com/tour/ts_...ming_shows.php

He was experiencing a lot of latency (1/4 sec) right off the bat. Now he is losing the syncs with all the Aphex pres (the ADA8000 on outs is still working)

His cabling with the Aphexs maybe wrong.
He will be cutting over to the Yamaha to get through this show.

Rig is GA-H55N-USB3 MB, i5, (2) HDSP9652, 4 APHEX 188 REMOTE PRES, APHEX 141 outputs

Should be a great setup.

PM for his cell # if you can help.

Thanks
Hap

[HapHazzard]

OK
A few things I need to verify before moving on.
From RME Manual

To use ASIO at lowest latencies under Windows 2000/XP even when only having one CPU,
the system performance has to be optimized for background tasks. Go to >Control Panel/
System/ Advanced/ Performance Options<. Change the default 'Applications' to 'Background
tasks'. The lowest usable latency will drop from 23 ms to around 3 ms.

Is this true and should do this.
Next

From the master rme card it should look like this:


Do I need the WDM settings. If so, which ones.

With the Aphex pres hooked correctly (using T's and a terminator end) he should see the ADAT In 1-3 LOCKed (not synced because they only have outs to the RME.

The second card should show ADAT In 1 & 2 Locked.

Lastly, does he run a coax WC cable to the "WC In" of the second card. Then come out of WC out to the Aphexs. Or can the internal sync do the job.

Hap

[Bob L]

For running SAC or SAWStudio at lowest latencies, I highly recommend leaving the Task priority set to foreground applications... those recommendations might be needed for other DAWs but SAC and SAWStudio handles it's internal thread priorities correctly... let my code do its work.

Bob L

[HapHazzard]

For running SAC or SAWStudio at lowest latencies, I highly recommend leaving the Task priority set to foreground applications... those recommendations might be needed for other DAWs but SAC and SAWStudio handles it's internal thread priorities correctly... let my code do its work.

Bob L

I had Steve crack open the DAW to check if the RME were seated

We just found that his first RME card was at fault. The whip for the expansion card was disconnected. We now have 3 of the Ahpex locked.

A couple of more hours on the cell and he should have it cleared up.

We will back together tomorrow (next city on the tour) and see (hear) if the latency has cleared up.

He does have a second DAW but it's not completed yet. In fact he was real close to racking it up as is.

Thanks Bob for the info
Code is good
Hap

[gdougherty]

The Ark rackmount case I built my system in has a crossbrace and pieces that screw in to hold cards securely in the slots. I was very impressed with it. No worries about the RayDAT ever working loose on the road. A spot of silicone or hot glue would take care of any non-locking internal cables. That's the other thing I like, locking SATA cables.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I am glad to hear that the problem was cleared up. Few things are more aggravating than a loose connection INSIDE a box that is supposed to be internally "solid". I'm still using a tower case for my road rig, and this thread is the first evidence I have seen AGAINST the idea of racking up a PC for the road (and this bit did not occur to me before, either).

If I have any concern about the innards of my road PC, I can pull one screw and get a quick peek inside. Racked, I would have to pull the machine from the rack (disconnecting the whole thing first) before I could get the cover off.

I have been around and around the "to rack or not to rack" argument in my head, and I realized that, unless I also build the keyboard, trackball, display, and fader pack into the rack, I would still have to do most of the computer hookup stuff every time I set up, AND the connections would be harder to get at because on having to reach into the rack.

So, for me the choice is between having the extra wiring steps at setup and having a 2-gorilla lift for the main rig package. Since I can't afford to hire the 2 gorillas, I guess I'll stick with the extra wiring.

[HapHazzard]

I am glad to hear that the problem was cleared up. Few things are more aggravating than a loose connection INSIDE a box that is supposed to be internally "solid". I'm still using a tower case for my road rig, and this thread is the first evidence I have seen AGAINST the idea of racking up a PC for the road (and this bit did not occur to me before, either).

If I have any concern about the innards of my road PC, I can pull one screw and get a quick peek inside. Racked, I would have to pull the machine from the rack (disconnecting the whole thing first) before I could get the cover off.

I have been around and around the "to rack or not to rack" argument in my head, and I realized that, unless I also build the keyboard, trackball, display, and fader pack into the rack, I would still have to do most of the computer hookup stuff every time I set up, AND the connections would be harder to get at because on having to reach into the rack.

So, for me the choice is between having the extra wiring steps at setup and having a 2-gorilla lift for the main rig package. Since I can't afford to hire the 2 gorillas, I guess I'll stick with the extra wiring.

These are Big guys with many systems that they are confronting on a daily bases. SAC a major change for they. Almost like a new frontier.

A 2 cent piece of tape would have solve his problem. It's just one of those things that could have made us or break us.

The thing we all learned is to....
Check our rig before going out.
Make sure your backups are in place.
And most of all,

It's always the most simplest thing that you will find last.

So keep your mind open. Look there first.

(I learned this from being a tele communications field tech in no mans land for years.)

He did the gig with the Yamaha console in Fargo and is now off to Harrah's Council Bluffs in IA.

I'll be waiting go his call to resolve the remaining issues.

Hap

[mojogil]

Hey Hap,
I see they are doing a show in Royalton MN. on the 24th. That's about an hour from me here in Minneapolis. I've done almost 100 shows with SAC. If there is anything I could do to help out let me know.
Gil

[Bill Park]

Cary,

I've seen probably thousands of computers come in to the various theaters and venues used for different aspects of the shows. The vast majority of them are loose, be they towers or laptops or whatever. (Laptops are becoming more prominent.) They most often seem to travel in internally padded utility cases. Another option is to have regular 'case in case' protection, where the foam fits snuggly around the computer but it is just a friction fit, so the carcass will slide right out if repairs are needed.

A rack buys you little, and unless it is a 'case in case' rack, any shocks to the outside of the rack are transmitted directly to your computer. If you've worked with empty ATA cases, you know that they flex a great deal and the only thing that keeps them together is the gear that is racked up in it and the case lids. So even case flex puts pressure on the computer. It has always been my impression that racked computers for road work (or in-studio work) were more 'cool factor' than anything. Horses for courses, can't beat racks for corporate/industrial stationary situations.

[RBIngraham]

I agree Bill. I think the rack mount case can be more of a pain in the rear than a help. At the same time, if you put all the gear in a nicely built rack with wheels, you don't have to plug and unplug any of the cables. Rear panel plugs can be put into the rack for the Keyboard, Monitor and Mouse and that doesn't wear out the connections on the tower or laptop.

The thing that always has made me nervous about the laptop method is that so many of the connections to the laptop are these flimsy, fragile looking things that are some special connection as well. (thinking about the various Cardbus sound cards and stuff that I've had over the years) One small hit and the thing is destroyed and good luck finding another one. Many only have 1 tiny 4 pin firewire port. There are ways around that of course, but even at the best, there is still a lot of things that could break very easily.

I personally just use Shuttles and racks with the MOTU I/O boxes and ADA units in them. But then I don't move around really. I set up and run the show for a month or more at least.

In the end I think this more of a "pick your poison" type decision. None of the methods (computer cases) are the solution for any situation and they all have their strong and weak points about them. Dealing with this is the one thing that is a downside for SAC compared to a hardware console that is designed for the road. Although I've had plenty of those so called road ready consoles muck things up and break as well.

Computer usage in shows (whether SAC or some other software) is just common practice now days. The smart and better funded shows just have full backups and plenty of spare parts.

If I had the budgets and I was doing a road tour, I would probably want RME MADI sound cards with their MADI A-D-A units and a MADI switcher that fed two redundant computers in rack cases, so I could switch from computer A to B in a matter of seconds. But that takes $$$ of course.